Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Well, hey, thank you so much for coming in and for everybody listening. Welcome to one of our founder stories with Codebase for everybody listening. My name's Ian. I'm a founder, currently on hiatus and working at Codebase, where we build better startup ecosystems.
In this episode, we'll hear from your spin finder, Aili Mudge. So thank you so much again for joining us about your story so far and we'll dig into your experiences as a founder and over the last three years building your company. So let's really get to that. Eli, do you want to introduce yourself and give us a little bit of an elevator pitch on Eurospin?
[00:00:34] Speaker B: Yep. So, yep, as you said, my name is Aili. I'm the founder of a company called Eurospin. It started when I was at university working behind bars and I spot an opportunity post Covid to try and add fun back into hospitality. All my friends were playing games online and going to pubs less post Covid. So I thought, let's add gamification to the pub industry to try and bring people back and bring people together.
So I finished university and then I really started your spin from there. And what we do is we work primarily with drink brands and we collect data on consumers through gamification in venues to try and bring people together, but really collect insights into consumers, which that information just isn't available to the drink brands currently.
[00:01:26] Speaker A: Yeah, nice. And how the hospitality industry. Interesting that you worked there and you've chosen to kind of go and focus on that.
How did that industry. Because quite traditional in some parts and aspects. How did they react to the gamification side of things?
[00:01:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it was perfect timing because it was post Covid, everyone was scanning QR codes. Remember, you had to scan in to check in anywhere. Everyone was wearing masks. It was a really struggling industry and to be honest, it still is. They were ready to just try anything that would bring people back. But as you said, they are very traditional, so they're difficult to adapt. I think I was lucky with the people that I pitched the idea to and they thought, let's give it a shot. So, honestly, the first three to six months of your spin, it was me camping in venues, trying to work out what would work and what wouldn't work if people would scan QR codes on tickets or ID cards and if people would interact. But it has been a journey and I'm still kind of going through that over. Old school mentality that comes with the hospitality industry. Still learning for sure.
[00:02:30] Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's really interesting and that sort of camping out as the first steps to just trying to get anybody using it. And any insight back is a fun time, but also pretty stressful as well.
[00:02:41] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. But it was quite nice being back into the hospitality sector after being in, working up, serving tables, being in bars, and then just kind of stepping back and actually just observing. I think when you work in hospitality, you think you know everything, so then coming in and just like camping out and observing, you learn a lot more. And then that kind of market research initially really helped the way that Eurospin was designed after that.
[00:03:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:06] Speaker B: So that was quite good to take a step back.
[00:03:08] Speaker A: And do you feel like, has it been easier for you to have some of these conversations with people and, you know, with your customers in hospitality venues, because you've got the background in hospitality?
[00:03:18] Speaker B: Definitely, I think it was more. So Eurospin initially started by. We gave ID cards to every staff member and really asked them to engage with it initially. And I think when we first went live, I expected everyone to be really on board with it because the first day it increased sales dramatically. And the owners were so happy. The GMs were happy. And then I was like, to the staff, this is great. And they were like, this just means that we're going to have to do more work. And I was like, sales are increasing. This is great. The results are great. And that was me just thinking more about it from the venue owner's perspective, and I wasn't thinking about what it would actually be like as a server. So it really helped to kind of think back to my time at waitressing, when all you want to do is your shift to be over and your legs are sore, you're kind of watching the clock the whole time, you're working like 12 to 14 hour shifts and it's hard. So I think that helped to kind of help me relate to the servers and then work out how we can make it work for them as well.
[00:04:20] Speaker A: And how have you done that?
[00:04:21] Speaker B: So initially we added, so when you play your spin as a consumer, as someone walking into the venue, ordering drinks, food, you could win prizes. And some of the prizes you can win were a tip for your server. So as soon as we added that, then the staff, every time they offered it, they were like, you can play this game, you can win free stuff, but I can also win free stuff. So it kind of created this banter between the staff and the consumers. So that worked really well. But then as we went on, I made sure that every time we spoke to brands and we created a brand deal, the Brand would offer some kind of big prize for the staff, because I knew that they were key drivers. So when we worked with Heineken, we got Post Malone tickets, two Post Malone tickets for the winning staff member. As we went live in that activation, the sales for Heineken shot up because everyone was like, I need this Post Malone concert ticket. With Brewdog, it was a night stay at a hotel. So it's really just about making sure that we're rewarding them because at the end of the day, they're the people that we needed to win over, most importantly for work.
[00:05:28] Speaker A: That's so cool. It's that. That incentive just to push them to sell this for you on your behalf. And so hard to uncover that until you're actually working in the venue as well and observing all that and seeing how. Where it stops working, basically, and where that sort of point of failure is.
[00:05:42] Speaker B: Yeah, and that's the most important thing. And I'm sure we'll come on to that. But the kind of American mentality is to really point out your failures and where is failing. And I think we'd go into venues and we'd get no plays. And I would just be so frustrated, but also embarrassed. Like, I'd be like, oh, let's just ignore that one and focus on the ones that are doing really well. When really going to America, I realized, like, you have to focus on the ones that are failing.
[00:06:05] Speaker A: And.
[00:06:05] Speaker B: And when we did that, that's when we identified how we could create that solution for that. And that's how we've actually really grown from there.
[00:06:11] Speaker A: Yeah, nice. How did you come to that sort of focus then? You mentioned America there. What was it that you experienced out there or learned out there that gave you that sort of change of approach?
[00:06:23] Speaker B: Honestly, it was at networking events, kind of the first night that I got there, everyone, the way they introduced themselves was like, hi, I'm so and so. And I've started three companies. Two of them have failed, one of them, x, for like 15 million. And I'd be like, nice. And it was like everyone had gone through some kind of failure, but that was like their starting piece. A lot of investors in America say that they won't invest in companies if they haven't already started a company that's failed. Which I just think is we really will, in the uk will step back from that and we'll just not talk about failures. Whereas in America, it's just that was their, like, conversation start, which I loved. So I've really tried to embrace that as much as possible and talk about failure because failure is actually more important than success. Really.
[00:07:09] Speaker A: Yeah. You do. You learn so much from that. I've had three failed businesses myself. I think if I was to go back in to do that now you know everything that you should look out for early on. You know how to move, what parts you really have to focus on and how you can move more quickly through stuff. But I totally agree with that. I think you do have to have experienced some of these things to understand where to put your energy and where not to.
[00:07:32] Speaker B: 100% yeah. Otherwise you'll just get so distracted. And even when I do investor updates, I'm still, it's still in my head that I'll only do investor updates when something's working. But then going to America I realized actually your investors do want to help you too. So if something is failing, you let them know and then they'll be able to come in with help from what they've been through, but also their connections that they might have. So it's just embracing it and asking for help as well where possible.
[00:07:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I remember somebody bit of advice I got a while back was when you're pitching for investment to somebody, one of the things they'll always be thinking about is just trying to pick holes in what you're talking about, talking to them about. And if you can show some self awareness and say I know these are the three reasons you shouldn't invest in me, but here's how I'm going to solve for that and here's how I can do that. That was one of the bits of advice that always stuck with me. And I think as you say, if you take that through in your day to day operations and how you approach that on your investment calls, it's a good way to show that you're the right founder for driving that company forward.
[00:08:31] Speaker B: It's all about curiosity. Right. Like you're curious about what's going to work and what's not going to work and I think failing fast is just key to any success in any startup. So yeah, just curious about what might work but also what might not work.
[00:08:45] Speaker A: Yeah. And really owning that like you say.
[00:08:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:47] Speaker A: So what would you say then would be some of. I mean did you have a company before your spin that that that didn't work out or.
[00:08:55] Speaker B: No. So this. So I was at university for four years in Dundee where I studied business. Just because it was the only subject at school that I really was interested in. I think I enjoyed this social aspect of uni probably more than the actual university part. But I, as soon as I graduated, I knew that I wanted to start something. Kind of all through, even high school, I knew that I wanted to start a business. I just didn't really know what. So as soon as Covid hit and I saw this problem and the lack of energy that came from hospitality during that, I wanted to see what I could do to solve that. So started your spin straight from that. So, no, this was my. Definitely my first, first venture, but hopefully not my last either.
[00:09:38] Speaker A: Yeah, no. Well, I mean, I guess that way you've approached then the early challenges and things like that, and to learn from those and to use those in the way you've explained is kind of taking that exact same mentality that you would get from having a venture previously that didn't work out.
[00:09:53] Speaker B: Yeah. And we've pivoted a lot as well, like every startup too. So I think that is also a bit of a failure. So you keep changing. If something's not working, then you could quickly move. I think also I've been really guilty of trying to make something that's not going to work, work. And I spend like ages trying to make it work, when really it's just like you need to identify that this isn't working. So you need to change something quick. Which again, going back to America, they know how to do. I mean, businesses won't last longer than a year out there. If it's not going to be like a multimillion company, then they're just like, okay, let's stop this and work on the next thing. I think that's important for us to take back here. It's just if it's not working, then quickly, quickly change.
[00:10:35] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's a really interesting point and I'd love to dig into that wee bit more because I think that goes against like you say what a lot of people here do. And it's really hard thing to do. To look at that thing that you've put loads and loads of hours into and just be frank and say, that's not working. I need to move and do something else.
[00:10:51] Speaker B: Because it's your baby. It really is. Yeah.
[00:10:53] Speaker A: Yeah. You spent so long and you, like, you say, you know, you get embarrassed by that maybe not working out, or there's all sorts of feelings that come in with that. How have you worked through those to make the decision that you felt has then been the right thing to do at that time?
[00:11:05] Speaker B: Honestly, it's hard because you're so connected to it and you know, it's like, you think about it before you go to bed. As soon as you wake up, it's always on your mind. So I think that's really difficult. But you just have to be frank with yourself and never be too attached with it. Like, you can always change it slightly, but just be so open and listen to the advice that comes. But just be frank and kind of look at the numbers, look at the data points and speak to your customers. And if something needs to change, then you should be open to that.
[00:11:37] Speaker A: Yeah. And like you say, one of the best ways to do that is to go in and look at exactly where isn't working. So look into your data sets and figure out, you know, why is that not working? Instead of ignoring it and trying to bring on more customers that might just then fall into that category.
[00:11:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:51] Speaker A: I remember one of my previous company was a hospitality startup as well. And we signed up a local bar in Edinburgh around the corner. Turned it on on the Friday night, saw the sales running through the system. I was like, right, we're gonna go down on the Saturday. Took a bunch of friends down, really excited. Let's go and test that out. Show you what I've been working on. We got into the place and I noticed all the marketing materials weren't on the table that we dropped in. And I was like, okay, this may be a bit odd. Maybe they've just not ruled them out for today or whatever. Asked the person that came over to serve us some drinks, you know, like, where's this? They were like, oh, yeah, that's really shit. We turned it off last night.
[00:12:27] Speaker B: Yep. This deja vu for me, because that happened to me too.
[00:12:32] Speaker A: Yeah. And it was that. That moment where you're like, oh, okay. Yeah, thanks for telling me though, you know, like, what? And then you could dig into, like, why is it. Why was it so bad? Like, why didn't it work for this place? Because it works for that place over there really, really well. And they're using it all the time. And that uncovered real fundamental problems with our product that as soon as we. We flipped that tiny little thing.
[00:12:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:55] Speaker A: They started using it again. And then more places that looked like them could use it as well.
[00:12:59] Speaker B: So it's really important. But surely when you first heard that, you were like, well, there must be something wrong with this venue. Like, it's not about my product. Like, we know my product's good. Was that really hard to hear?
[00:13:10] Speaker A: Massive denial. Yeah. Yeah. Just like you say, you know, you're just like, well, they're wrong. This works over Here, this is a great idea, but actually it's really being able to own up to that and say, well, they're the people that matter the most here because they're going to pay for this or they're going to not pay for it. But it's really hard to work through, I don't think. And I don't think there's one way that you can approach that either. You've got to find the right thing for you. But the thing that you said that I totally agree with is just to listen to those customers as frequently as possible and be open minded to any changes that you feel like you should make.
[00:13:46] Speaker B: Even if you don't agree with it initially. Test it. Always be open to change.
[00:13:51] Speaker A: Yeah. And look at more than just one case, you know, like go and expand that and do a wee bit of research and figure out do more people feel like this, is this because it's okay for your product not to be for everyone as well? And it shouldn't be necessarily. So. Yeah.
[00:14:05] Speaker B: It really is just a mindset thing, isn't it, that you just have to be so open to. I mean, and I tell this to the brands that we work with. So data is such a key part of what we do. And when we look into all the venues that we go live in with one activation, I say that the ones that aren't getting plays are. The data is not as exciting. That's the one to focus on. And I think even that mindset for the brands, they're thinking like, oh well, like 20 out of 25 have been working. So let's just look at that data. And I'm like, what about the five? That's way more interesting because we can learn stuff from that. And even that for them I think has helped them a lot in terms of working out how they can utilize it more. Because the data is the most interesting part. So the ones that don't work, then we work out why and how we can change that and then it just means that the next activation we do is just 10 times better.
[00:14:58] Speaker A: And how's that? Have you found that gets you closer to those customers then? And do they want to keep working with you because you've been able to sort of almost change the way that they're operating and looking at some of these things?
[00:15:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I'd like to think so. And I guess that's the difficulty because we're really trying to scale and we don't want to act as consultants because it's kind of a tech company. So it's working out how we can digitalize the kind of advice that we're giving them in our system. And that's kind of what we're trying to develop at the minute, is some kind of tools that will say, you know, this is the interesting points so that we don't have to look into that and to kind of help. But it's definitely that kind of consultancy and advice that we're giving is probably one of the most interesting things. So it's just how we can learn from that and digitalize that so that we can scale so it's more automated.
[00:15:48] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's again, another really important point for people to consider is you have to do a lot of these things manually to begin with to figure out what is it that somebody cares enough about that you're solving, they'll pay you for. And then how do you do that at scale? And again, going back to the US thing, that's that mindset that I noticed over there was they'll find they'll work really, really hard and really focus in on what is that problem area you can solve, and then they will only look at how scalable that is. Is that something that we can scale to whatever our ambition is, and if it's not, they'll look at a different problem area? Yeah, I guess you've mentioned that kind of influence of America a couple of times, and I'd love to understand a little bit more about what you did out there.
How did you go out there the first time?
What were some of the things that you really picked up outside of what we've already talked about and brought back? And how has that kind of change the way you've operated at your spend?
[00:16:47] Speaker B: So I went out with Techscaler last February and I'd never been to America before, so it was first for everything when I got into. So we flew to London and then I was like frantically trying to find the gate and I saw this man standing with a cap and on the back it said VC funded. And I was like, definitely in the right place.
So I flew to San Francisco.
I was kind of amazed by everything as soon as I got there because everything's just giant, like the cartons of milk and things like that.
But we kind of just went straight into it. So there was, I think when I arrived, there was five other founders who I hadn't met before.
And we all just kind of threw ourselves in and signed up to as many networking events as possible, which is so easy to find out there because there's about like 100 every night. So you can just kind of chuck yourself. And if one isn't great, then you just go to the next one. And we just started speaking to people and we got so much. I remember going to bed like the first night and thinking like my head was just buzzing with feedback from people because they love to tell their opinion. So I just had so much feedback and learnings from people. So the huge thing was networking out there and we went to different events. One of the most important things for me that I took back also was being with a group of founders. So we were all at different stages as well, which was really helpful. Techscaler had rented an office space for us, so we're all working together. And then it meant that we could really debrief what we'd learned from like the events that we'd gone to the day before, which I thought was really important. And definitely for me before I went to San Francisco, I hadn't gone to that many networking events really, which is really bad because the Scottish ecosystem is great for was like amazing at the Bennett 4 networking events. But I had just been so focused on camping and venues and working with brands and not going to like, I just didn't have time to go to the events at night. So I was there for two and a half weeks and it really forced me to sit with other like minded founders and get their advice and it just turned into a community. And I still talk to them all the time. We still have a group chat that we message in and it's just so nice to have other people that are going through the similar, a similar thing. But America is just, yeah, game changing. So definitely the fail fast, embrace failure, work quickly and community. They all have loads of people and it was like we'd really feel like the odd ones out because at these events everyone knew everyone because they'd go to them like every night. And there was one networking event that we went to at an office space, but it was actually where all the guys. So I think there was six of them in the company and they all slept there too. So all their beds came out from the wall and then they had like desks and it was just the strangest network event I'd been to because they were all like taking calls and it was like this, like you see in the movies, this real grind. And it was really just inspiring because I think sometimes we lack that here. But it was just great to see. And I was like, it was like I was in some kind of social networking movie for beds.
[00:19:59] Speaker A: In the walls.
[00:20:02] Speaker B: As well. Like, it was just the coolest office ever.
[00:20:04] Speaker A: But yeah, I guess, massive tangent, but that's kind of like the whole Google office thing is where they just try to incentivize you to never leave.
[00:20:12] Speaker B: Never leave. Yeah, it was just like the coolest office is don't leave. Yeah, and that's exactly what they were trying to do. And they'd been around for, I think they were four months old at the time. They had a team of six already. They had huge investment. They had this office space, and they were just constantly working. And it was just like, yeah, sometime maybe they take it too far over there. Like a bit of balance, but definitely a lot to learn for sure.
[00:20:36] Speaker A: I think it's kind of what works for you, isn't it? And what you're kind of focused on and how you want to build that. And it's okay for that to be that approach. And it's also okay for that to be a different approach.
I remember being really intimidated by one of the first networking things I went to in the US because got into a conversation with this person and they were like, yeah, just really struggling. You know, the project's just not going anywhere. I'm really nowhere where I want to go. I'm stuck at a million annual recurring revenue. And I was like, oh, yeah, you're doing really, really badly over there. Yeah.
[00:21:05] Speaker B: Oh, God, I do that.
[00:21:06] Speaker A: What a big problem. But it was, you know, and my first instinct there was to sort of like, okay, I'll just come away from that conversation. There's nothing I can do there. And I, you know, it was a real point of kind of refocusing for me because kind of similar to what you're saying about people encouraging you to look at those kind of mini failures within your product or within your company. That was again, the same thing. It's like, go back to that and say, well, what have you done to this point? Why are you stuck? And that gave me such a different perspective as to just the mindset for building the first six months of the company and what people over there are naturally focused on versus what I was naturally focused on building a company here before we went there. So, yeah, it's really interesting to hear. You had a similar kind of.
[00:21:50] Speaker B: Yeah, intimidating is a good word, actually. I remember when someone asked how much I was looking to raise, and I said, probably like between 500 to a mile. And they were like, what's the point? And I was like, okay. They're just like, that will get you anywhere. I was like, because over here that's, that's a decent amount to raise, but there they would just, they spend so quickly so they can know if it's going to work or not. So they do everything so fast. I definitely think it's a balancing act between the US mentality and UK mindset as well.
[00:22:25] Speaker A: Yeah, I guess taking what you want from that, it's just, I suppose having had exposure to that, you can then create how you want to build your company from a fundraising point of view to how you're going to go out and acquire customers and what your targets are going to be, kind of month to month as well. Yeah, it's really interesting to hear that. Like, yeah, that's no pointless amount of money to raise, but it's a huge amount of money at the same time, I guess, on that sort of fundraising side of things. I know you were announced recently as one of the winners of edge round 24. I think it was, wasn't it? Could you tell me a little bit about that kind of experience? Why did you go for the Edge funding? What was it like kind of pitching to that. So for anybody listening that isn't aware, it's quite a large scale pitching competition, so there's a big audience that you're pitching to at the end, which is all competitive and there are multiple rounds to get there. So, yeah, just great to hear your experience on why you went for that and how you, how you find it.
[00:23:23] Speaker B: Yeah, of course. So I, I went for Edge six months into the Eurospin journey and I went for the Young Edge category.
That one's slightly less intense. So you send an application and then you do an online pitch and then you find out if you have won or not, if you've been successful. We luckily were successful for Young Edge, so that was great and that was a real helping curve. So that was 10 grand grant that we got and that really helped us to fund our initial, really kind of pilot stages. So that was great. Then two months, two years later, I was decided to go for Mainedge. I wasn't going to because I'd heard that it's very competitive, but I spoke to someone, they said that I should just go for it because the best thing is, is they give feedback to anyone who applies. So it doesn't matter if you're not successful because they give you feedback and the feedback is through lots of judges. So they'll tell you their honest opinion. So it's probably worth it just for that feedback. So I thought that would be great. And it's really good to go through the application stage, because I've gone through a lot of grant applications and things like that in the past where it takes so long and the questions are quite tedious. Whereas Edge, the questions really make you just. Just think about your business. So it was actually just a really good timing for us to do it. And I just dedicated a whole day to writing out this application and putting time into it. So you apply and then you get feedback and then you find out if you're successful or not. So we're successful. And then there's two other pitching sessions, so one online, and then we get through to the finals. That's the one on stage in front of lots of people that I had a lot of practice pitching. So I had. I would record myself on my phone pitching, and I had, like, 100 videos of, like, me just, like, failing every time. But Edge is a really, really good experience. Even just pitching practice is so important to, like, know how to pitch to an audience as well. And, you know, you're, you know, the judges beforehand, so it really makes you think about what questions that they might ask. So it's just great practice. And again, with the context that it brings, there were some really great judges that, on the day of pitching that I actually had dinner with at the ceremony a week later, and they had some really good intel as well. So Edge is. I would encourage anyone to apply for Edge, but it was a great process. Yeah. And definitely pushed me out my comfort zone to pitch to that many people.
[00:25:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Nice. And you mentioned kind of fundraising a couple of times in terms of how you've gone about it. And Edge is one way to do that. And you've mentioned grant funding, and that's a really popular route in Scotland particularly. You know, there's a lot of different grant funding tools or processes available.
Have you gone for other types of funding as well? Have you secured different types of funding throughout your kind of last three years?
[00:26:21] Speaker B: Yes. So we've gone through two angel investment rounds.
First was very early stages when I kind of just had the concept and I pitched it to some people that would really bring value to the company. I think that's really important, and I didn't know how important it would be until kind of probably after the process. But your investors are someone that you really need to trust because you kind of go in it with them. So I was so lucky to get a great group of investors that had every skill set that I really needed that I didn't have myself. So in terms of hospitality, backgrounds, data Backgrounds, growing a business and exiting a business, those kind of people. So I had really good investors, early days, but when we went to do that first investment round, I was straight out of uni, never gone through anything like this before, and I just had an idea. So I said that we'd split the investment round into two tranches. I really wanted to prove myself, but I knew that they were putting a lot of trust into me as well, and I really wanted to deliver. So I split it up into two tranches and I said that if I do what I say I'm going to do and it's successful and we try it and it works, then we do another round which would be the exact same valuation, same amount, and everyone agreed to that. So we did that round in the December and then by the April we'd achieved what we were going to do and we had some really good stats. So everyone invested the same amount at the same valuation.
And I think that was a good way to do it.
[00:27:52] Speaker A: Yeah, very much so. Especially for someone going into that first time, you know, like, how did you, how did you arrive at that kind of approach? Is it something you put a, a lot of research into or would. Were you working with somebody that had kind of given some advice in there or.
[00:28:05] Speaker B: Really my advisors, early stage were really pushing me to make sure that you don't over sell what you're going to do, make sure that everything you say you're going to do is achievable. Because that would be the worst thing is to say, like, we're going to achieve all of this in the next, like two months when it's not realistic. So make really realistic goals that they can understand and that they can help too. I think, I think investors want to feel like they can be a part of it too, and they can add value.
And if you ask them for feedback and ask them for help at different things and then they achieve, you kind of achieve that goal together, then it just kind of strengthens the relationship.
[00:28:45] Speaker A: Yeah, I think, like you say as well, it's, you know, money is one aspect of this, to get you where you need to go or to support you in what you're looking to do. But actually when you've got other gaps that you need to solve for the investors can be. Be a great way of doing that and it's a really smart way to try and bring that type of experience into the company, but without having to hire somebody in full time. And you can. A huge part with investors is leveraging their networks for what you need and things. And I think when we've spoken to sort of later stage founders and things like that, they tend to talk a lot about the influence of those investors at the early stage, but also now in terms of unlocking doors for them and helping them figure out solutions to problems or people that they can kind of meet that can help them out. So, yeah, it's really interesting, I guess what if you compared the two, they're really different, you know, pitching competition to turning up to a room of however many and pretty intense kind of grilling it could be. What were some of the kind of key differences that you've noticed and any advice that you would give to somebody else who was thinking about that in terms of how to fund their company?
[00:29:57] Speaker B: Well, if we're thinking about Edge initially, Edge is they want to.
It's very similar actually because they really want to invest in companies that they know is going to succeed as well. So I think having raised money with investors before really gave me that mindset that Edge wanted. They want to give to winners that aren't that are going to use that money to deliver. So when I was pitching, I was making sure that we knew exactly what we were asking for, the amount and exactly what we were going to use that money for. And then it helps them feel confident that you should be a winner because they know exactly the next steps and yeah, it helps them decide where that money's going to go. So there was definitely some similarities in it for sure. So I think anyone going for Edge should think of them as investors and even if they haven't gone through that investment round. So very good practice because some of the questions you on stage are intense and it really made me think a lot. I think the whole thing is just being honest. And what this another similarity is they're really investing in you too. So same with Edge, you might have judges that they don't have any interest in what you're doing or they don't have any intel, they don't understand it.
So being able to kind of sell yourself and just say that why you are the ones, that is, why you're the person that's going to do it, that helps too.
Yeah. Not sure if that answers your question, but I think they're very, they're very similar in certain ways.
[00:31:29] Speaker A: Yeah, so that definitely answers the question. And I think one of the things that's really interesting, what you've talked about there is about involving investors, but also in sort of, you said earlier communicating better, holding yourself to account on here's what I'm going to achieve here. So you've done that with your sort of split investment with the two tranches, and here's the sort of milestones I'll work towards. And, you know, I'm not sure we see that from every founder that, you know, that starts their company in terms of having the discipline of, here's exactly what I'm working towards, here's the time frame, and here's a bunch of things that are kind of interrelated onto that. Yeah, the thing I'd be really interested to hear, really, is just around the milestones that you've had are those kind of like, they're kind of little win moments when you hit those. And as you mentioned earlier, that unlocks a next wave of investment that helps you then go on to achieve the next sort of objective for you. And those little wins are easy to brush under the carpet. It's really easy to focus when you're running the company on this big challenge, this big problem, and kind of get bogged down on that. What are some of those wins and milestones that you've had as the journey's kind of gone on for you over the last three years? And how have you kind of marked some of those to try and, you know, give them the recognition they kind of deserve?
[00:32:44] Speaker B: That's a really good question, because I think I'm the worst at celebrating success because startup is just a wave. So as soon as you celebrate something, then it's like, right the next day you get a phone call or something's gone badly. So it's really difficult to ever really celebrate. I mean, some of the biggest wins are when I'm sat in venue and I see people, like, run over with the prizes they win or they're super happy that they've beat their friend. And it's that competitiveness and overhearing our game makes this really loud noise when people have their phones on loud. And it's just great when I'm in venue and I hear that noise and people are looking around and then people go and play.
They're the little wins to me, in terms of properly celebrating is probably something that I should do more of. We went on a staff night out, actually, at Christmas time, and that was so nice to kind of all be sat, having a few drinks and kind of reflect on what we'd achieved. And that's something that I should really do. Like every three. Every three months is kind of sit and assess, actually early days. I used to have a notebook which I need to look out, actually where I would just write down, like little successes. So if I met people that I was like, kind of like geeked out over being able to meet, I'd write that down like, I met this person today and I think that was really nice because it made me think, like, I could look back if I was having a bad day and be like, like, that's pretty cool what I've done. You know, even if it was looking like we were going to have complete failure, I'd be like, well, look what we have achieved. So there's. It's always learning. But yeah, that's a really good point. And I think something that everyone's guilty for is not being able to properly celebrate success. So something I'll definitely try harder with. But just the little wins, watching people play, getting good feedback and testimonials from brands, that makes me feel really confident about my. What we're doing and that we're achieving something good.
[00:34:38] Speaker A: Yeah, that's really cool. I love the notebook thing.
[00:34:40] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a really good one. It was nice. I wish I still did that because. Yeah, and then you can be confident with the little things.
[00:34:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:34:47] Speaker B: It's really hard to overlook some of the stuff that you do well that.
[00:34:51] Speaker A: Says relevant on day one when you're, you know, maybe your first thing that you're going to do is look up what competitors there might be to your. To your idea, as it is to when you've got however much money coming in. And yeah, you know, you've won however many new customers this month or quarter. So I really like that idea. That's something I'm definitely going to lift.
[00:35:11] Speaker B: It was nice.
I mean, on that page I had one of the points was I learned what SEIS was and another one was we just raised 150k. So it's just like, it's completely different. But it was like the small things and it's nice to think, like that was important for me at the time.
[00:35:28] Speaker A: Yeah. So, yeah, definitely one, as you say, that's the whole progress that you go through. There's so much confusing, random stuff in building a company. You learn so much stuff and especially as a solo founder to begin with, you're on your own and you have to learn all of that stuff that you're going to need to do. So you end up learning legal stuff.
[00:35:49] Speaker B: Doing your VAT returns. This is a big win.
[00:35:52] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. So I think it's a great way to kind of recognize that and I think, think that's something that I think everybody should Try and put as much time and focus into as much as you focus in on your challenges and how to improve and build upon those. How you actually celebrate those wins and take some time out for yourself.
[00:36:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Even if it seems silly writing down, I learned yscis, man.
[00:36:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:14] Speaker B: Yeah. At the time I was like, that's cool. None of my friends know what that is.
[00:36:20] Speaker A: On the lunch. The celebratory lunch, dinner thing.
[00:36:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:36:23] Speaker A: Where. Where do you go for that? When you run a product that you know is in the hospitality industry, are there places that you're like, I'm not going there because they don't use the product well.
[00:36:32] Speaker B: Guilty. We actually did go somewhere that we were live at the time because we loved that place. Yeah. And we have really good relationship with the bar staff too.
So, yeah, that's actually where we went. But not always. Not always go to your spin bed.
But that's a. That's a win. And I came home after that with a Bacardi light up cup that I love. So that was a win.
[00:36:55] Speaker A: Win's all right.
[00:36:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Literally.
[00:36:57] Speaker A: I guess the flip side is going places that don't use you and selling in when you're there.
[00:37:01] Speaker B: But we'll always be selling.
[00:37:03] Speaker A: That's not really a time to.
[00:37:04] Speaker B: No.
Yeah. You want to not think about business, which is hard too. When you're in a hospitality space, though, and you're like always thinking, like, what's missing here?
[00:37:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Maybe you've got to go rock climbing.
[00:37:14] Speaker B: Or somewhere where there's no something like go karting or something.
[00:37:17] Speaker A: Yeah, totally.
[00:37:17] Speaker B: Next time. Yeah.
[00:37:21] Speaker A: It was really around to dig into decision making and how that's evolved for you as you've grown your company because you started on your own. And what's the team size now?
[00:37:30] Speaker B: Four of us.
[00:37:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Cool. So, I mean, you've grown that over the last couple of years.
How did you make decisions when it was just you and you maybe were listening to feedback or you presented with something, just didn't know what to do. How did you kind of make those decisions then?
[00:37:46] Speaker B: So you say when it was just me, I don't think it was ever just me. I've always had really good mentors and advisors that I can just call and ask them. I'm really. I make quick decisions for sure, but I always like to just like bounce them off someone just to make sure that I'm doing the right thing. So I think. And I think decision making when you're on your own is really hard. So I think first step, if you're Going to start up a business is definitely to find people that you can bounce off ideas and get really solid advice. They'll be honest with you. So I'd always have people that I could call for sure.
When you're kind of onto later stage and you've got people who are calling, asking for advice asap, you can't be calling for just like, let me two seconds, let me just ask someone else. So I have learned to make decisions and be confident about them, but this comes back to the whole failure piece as well. There's definitely been times that I've made decisions. When looking back at it, I'm like, that was just rogue, rogue. So it's again about learning and I'm still going through that process, but I also learn from our, the other team members now. So there's four of us, but I think they're a lot smarter than me, 100% and they have so many, so much more years of learning than me. So I learn loads, loads from them. I think that's also important when you're growing your team is make sure that you're not trying to be the smartest in the room ever, because then you've hired the wrong people. So I definitely lean on them for a lot of advice as well.
[00:39:24] Speaker A: Yeah, nice. Yeah, definitely, like really identifying the gaps you've got and hiring for those gaps to lift that, you know, to will lift the whole company. Then in terms of bringing that expertise in again, have you got any frameworks that you use for that self reflection? Because that is a deliberate practice, you know, to sit back and think about the decisions you've made, the decisions you've made, you know, on your own, with advisors, with the team. Do you have anything that you would recommend to other founders to think about looking at?
[00:39:51] Speaker B: I wish I could say I did, but honestly, it's every time we have a board meeting, so kind of once a month really is when it's that reflective piece I do before that meeting and it makes me really think like, okay, so this is what we've done, this is what we've learned from it and then this is how we're going to move on from that. So that, that piece that I do kind of every month is so important and anytime that we, our board meeting might get shifted a month, I really feel that that has a negative impact because then I kind of continue what I was doing. So it's so important to reflect. Otherwise you're kind of just pushing on and like slowly pushing and nothing's really happening. So it's so hard to actually make a step back and it's really difficult to have that discipline. So I think having people that keep you accountable so that you can make sure that you have that reflective piece. So you can say, this is what we've done and is it actually working or is it not? Because it's so hard, you could just keep going for. And we've been guilty of this. You keep doing the same thing because it's slightly working, but you actually realize that, you know, something needs to change.
[00:40:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:56] Speaker B: So in terms of framework, I think I don't really, but it's just making sure that you have someone who's accountable. Something in your diary, even just like first of every month is like, that's when you're going to reflect on what you did before because you don't have forever. So you just really need to be disciplined with yourself, which again, I'm still learning for sure.
[00:41:16] Speaker A: I think that's really great advice though. And you know, as you say, if you don't have a board or you don't have those external accountability sources, I think if you can bake that in yourself. Even from the very early stages. I remember forcing my co founder to have this like monthly call where we reviewed all the kind of metrics that mattered to us and he was like, this is pointless. It's the two of us. We're on every call together anyway. I'm like, but we need a moment to look back on that and say, this is a problem. How are we going to fix that now? Because otherwise, as you say, you drift like two, three, four months down the road. You knew that problem was there months ago. You could have fixed it.
[00:41:52] Speaker B: We're just ignoring it.
[00:41:53] Speaker A: Totally. Yeah, no, that's really great to hear and really great advice for finders that early on, as much as it is later stage, to try and reflect as much as possible and look at where those many failures are, where those successes are and what you can build on. Yeah, nice. Was hoping you could give us a quick overview of what support you've been involved with through Codebase and Techscaler. Specifically, you mentioned this earlier with one of the international trips and for anybody listening, the Techscaler program is a Scottish government funded program which offers support to start up and scale up companies at every stage. And the program does that through access to education, materials and content, mentorship, community and events and the international trips that you've mentioned before. So yeah, just great to understand what support you've accessed through Tax Killer.
[00:42:42] Speaker B: Yeah. So we touched on how important mentors are and making sure you have them along the journey. And that's one thing that Techscaler has been great for. They match you with someone who you can have monthly catch ups with and the whole accountability piece as well. They can hold you accountable. So every time you have that in your diary is when you're going to talk about what you achieved the month before and what's working, what's not. So that has been so vital. And the mentors are great and they've been through things that you might not have or you're just about to go through. So they have past experience that they can touch on. So I think that's been really key. The San Francisco trip was amazing for me to get to the States, but also to meet like minded people.
And then Techscaler has a course that they run and I went on Techscaler's Next steps, which again it was, I think it was just in the afternoons and once a week. So Techscaler Next Steps I went on and that was once a week. And it is really hard when you sign up to courses because it's finding the time and the discipline to make sure that you attend them the whole time. And some courses I've been on are like intense every afternoon. So this is great because it's once a week and you know that it's going to be the same time every week. And again when I went to the first one in Code Base, actually it was just everyone can kind of like an introduction meet in person and that was so nice. And like the first day I met people that we've still got this group chat and we still talk about all the time and it's coming back to that connection piece and everyone was so friendly and again in the same boat as well. Next Steps everyone was on a similar stage, so that really helped and we were encouraging each other the whole way. And at the end of the course you have a pitching session so a couple founders will stand up and pitch and I was one of them. And it was at a cinema and I pitch and I just didn't feel nervous because although there was a panel of judges, all my friends after the course were all watching behind and everyone was so supportive. So that was great and it's exactly what I needed. So that, that when I went to go for Edge main edge and pitch on stage, I had had that practice and they coached us as well. So we had pitching practices beforehand. So that was vital and I don't actually think I would have been able to pitch as strong as I did for Edge if I hadn't gone through that process. So again, that was super helpful. But really it's the community aspect that's so great. We learn so many lessons and I have like a bundle of notes but it's the people that you connect with through Codebase and Techscaler has really helped me and meant that I'd never feel alone because I've always got people that I can touch on. That's very advice.
[00:45:23] Speaker A: You've kind of answered my follow on question which was going to be about what do you pull out of those things has been the most valuable and it's great to hear that it's those community aspects and those lasting relationships because that's something that we try to design into most of the things we do. As you mentioned, Silicon Valley is a cohort based experience. Next steps, cohort based. Again, mentorship obviously isn't, but that's for a very different purpose. So great to hear that you've had that kind of benefit there with, with those lasting relationships. How have, how have they kind of supported you with decisions or changes or things that you've. You've made over the past year?
[00:46:01] Speaker B: Oh well, I just messaged someone yesterday who I went to San Francisco with about were doing a name change and I knew he'd gone through a name change and I'm like where do you even start with that? Like changing bank accounts, companies house. So it's so nice to quickly just have someone you can WhatsApp me like what are the steps? And him just like responding and telling me exactly what it is. So that's just an example, that was just yesterday. But there's been loads of times even when I'm struggling, you know, when you kind of, you feel like you're just constantly getting failures and nothing's really going uphill and there's something, it's so important to have those people that I can just have a call with and we can meet up. Even when I'm in Glasgow, there's now like a hub of people. So I met people that are based in London, Glasgow, Aberdeen. It's so nice to be able to message them when you're there and just go for a coffee and kind of just debrief to each other about what's happened. But also people that you can celebrate with too.
[00:46:58] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah. Because. And there's nobody. I remember this always in terms of you chat to friends and they would, you know, they're in their. Whatever their job is non founder friends and you would tell them about something, they'd just be like, yeah, I don't really get it. You know, and you would, you would just be sitting there crying inside and they're just brushing it off. But there's nobody that quite understands it like other founders, 100%. And yeah, it's a great way to celebrate and chat about those challenges.
[00:47:24] Speaker B: It really is. Yeah. Especially my friends who were going into grad jobs and then they'd see me and think, what are you doing? Literally like what? I don't understand what you're doing. So it was so helpful that when I finally signed up to be part of Code Base and Tech Scaler, I had people who I could actually relate to and it's like, oh yeah, we actually do work so hard.
That was really important.
[00:47:48] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. People from the outside don't quite always understand that. I appreciate how much work and effort goes into this.
I think you've answered a lot of those kind of questions around within some of your answers there. So one really specific one I would love to get your take on is what would you say to anybody considering joining a kind of code based run program like Techscaler?
[00:48:11] Speaker B: Yeah, to do it, I think I hesitate and there's nothing to lose. And they treat you so well considering there's so many members.
[00:48:20] Speaker A: Do you know how many members like almost 1400 or.
[00:48:23] Speaker B: Which is crazy. Yeah, it's a huge hub. But you get personal attention and I don't know how they do it but you know, you get access to so many things and there's so many courses. You really just need to throw yourself in and make the most of it because it is there. And the events that they do, they run coffee mornings. There's so many things that you can just attend and it doesn't cost you anything. So it's really important just to go for it and take the jump and do it. And the people you meet. Every time that I was like, oh, I really, I've just worked like for the past like 14 hours. I really don't want to go to a networking event now, but I've never gone to a network event where I'm walking home afterwards thinking that was a waste of time. Because there's always someone that you will meet who will know someone, you'll know someone who will be part of a big deal you're about to close. That's the mindset I always have and it always comes true.
[00:49:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Or it might come around in two years time.
[00:49:20] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah.
[00:49:22] Speaker A: I think that's really Great advice. And in terms of from the tech scaler perspective, the whole program is designed for founders to dip in and out as they need to. It's not a come in, do this set thing and then leave again, or you have to do these series of things. The whole thing's there for you to use as much as you need it. So there's obviously eligibility for different parts of the service because there has to be to make it as relevant to people as possible. But that's open for you to use as you kind of need to, which I think is important because ultimately you're building your company, you're not attending support programs and things like that. That's going to get you there. So you've got to keep the focus on building the company and where any support throughout any of the ecosystems around the world. You just want to use it to what you need as the founder to get you to the next milestone.
[00:50:14] Speaker B: Even the mentoring pieces that we talked about, that's monthly, but you can stop that whenever. And I think I stopped it for. Or it stopped for four months. And then I quickly messaged, being like, actually, I've got something that I really need advice on. And then they set up a meeting the next week. It's just. Yeah, it's great. So just being able to use it when suits you is so important because you just can't commit your time to any one piece when you're doing business because you just have no idea what's going to be around the corner.
[00:50:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. One minute you're like sleeping in the bed in the office. The next minute you're like figuring out how on earth you keep funding coming in to keep the company going or how you stop customers leaving or something like that. There's so much, so much to kind of juggle and jump between. Yeah, I guess let's go to the future for you.
So what would be the focus for you now? What does success look like for your spin in the next three months and then beyond that if everything goes to plan?
[00:51:11] Speaker B: Yeah. So we are just launching a new game which has kind of gone live already. We're still in the testing piece. We've been testing it with students. I went on a MIT trip to Boston in February this year, and I learned so much there about focusing on your target market. And what brands have been screaming to us is that they really want to connect with students better. I think that's exactly what your spin does. But this new game that we're launching allows us to engage with even more people and it's widening it to more student focus. So I'm so excited about this game and it's more of a. A game too, so it's got more of a gaming aspect. And all of my friends know that when I go to a pub, I will have games with me always. I'll have a pack of cards, I'll have Pass the Pigs if you've ever played Pass the Pigs.
[00:52:09] Speaker A: I've not played that. No.
[00:52:10] Speaker B: It's a great game. It's my bag if you want to play after this.
But it's more of a. It's an interactive game that has a leaderboard and we've only been testing it for a month now and we've had some great stats and we've got players that play constantly. It's very cool and it's very exciting. So that was all about listening to advice about our target market, but also exactly what the brands want and listening to the feedback that I might have ignored before. So it was really just like it took at the start of this year, really. Me and Ali, our commercial director, we sat down and really listened to the advice that we've had the past six months and taken that and produced this kind of next game stage. So we're focusing on that, we're launching that out and again with the learnings, it's fail, fail fast. So we're doing a lot of pushing as quickly as we can to test this game. So the next three months is all about this new game, but also closing deals with your spin and making sure that we are still getting plays with that and still listening to consumers advice and brands advice too. Working on some collaboration deals which will hopefully help us kind of accelerate. But focusing on scaling scalability. I'm really keen to scale as quickly as we can now. We've kind of been focusing on Scotland and a bit of England, but now it's really just how we can roll out on a big scale because we can. We've got the product that we can do. It's all automated now, so really it's just about pushing ourselves to make close those deals, make them happen.
[00:53:40] Speaker A: Nice. Yeah. Really exciting with the new game that comes in. And that's part of. That's still part of the same company.
[00:53:49] Speaker B: Kind of product number two. Yeah. But we're all really excited about it and again, it's just watching other people, watching people play and get enjoyment from it is what keeps me going. So it's really exciting to see.
[00:54:02] Speaker A: How do you juggle the kind of feedback that you get from. I Imagine brands care about something totally different to the student and then they care something completely different to the bar. How do you juggle those kind of. Of feedback?
[00:54:14] Speaker B: I think that's why brands like us, because they, they struggle to understand exactly what the students want. So we're able to give that, them that kind of intel that we have. So we have student societies who have signed up to kind of partner with us. So we have access to testing a lot of different things. So we kind of have that intel. And I think a few times they've suggested things to me and I'll say, that won't work, we know that one. And I think they like that because they can bounce off ideas and we have access to test it. But yeah, they're definitely different and especially a lot of big companies, they want to just collect as much data as possible and then they probably don't do anything with it. So it's making sure that the data that we collect is minimal, but it will actually help make them make actionable impacts for their business and help their business grow. But always thinking about users first, that's kind of, that's my pitch to the brands if they ever ask for anything. It's just always thinking about users first and then, and then plays will come if we're just focusing on them first. But yeah, they definitely have different interests. It's just making sure that you think about the end goal.
[00:55:25] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, nice. And I guess that that converges really nicely, you know, because you're looking to, you know, to sell product or to get people to repeat purchase or get involved in the venue. And that benefits everybody. How, when you look back at your vision from like day one or week one or whatever, how has that kind of changed and evolved?
[00:55:47] Speaker B: Vision has weirdly stayed the same in the terms of. It's always just been about fun. I want to have fun when I go to hospitality places. I want people to sit with their friends and have a great time. And we're just adding games to help bring people together. So that vision has really helped us make decisions as well about what games we're going to launch next or what data we're going to collect or what venues we're going to work with, even what brands we're going to work with. So having that clear vision in terms of how we got there, that's changed a lot. We've done a lot of different changes in terms of how we're going to achieve that, but I think that has been really helpful is just having that overarching mission and goal, which is just to add fun to hospitality and teach people about cool brands, has really helped to kind of keep us, Keep us straight in terms of what our strategy is going to be.
[00:56:41] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's really. And again, something that founders don't spend enough time on is like, why are you doing this? What is that core reason? And if you need to adjust that and adapt that over time, you can. But staying kind of as true to that as possible and adapting a right, you know, how did you land on that early on? Was that something obvious to you when you were thinking about this before you started up? Was that just what you'd landed on, or was it something that took a little bit of time to develop?
[00:57:10] Speaker B: I think it's kind of selfish. It's just something that I wanted, to be honest. When I went to that MIT course and we had a night before classes started where everyone came together. And my way of getting people to know each other was I'd whip out about the games I bring. So, like, my cards and my pasta pigs and everyone just had such great banter. And it was competitiveness. And people's true characters came out about how competitive we were going to be on this course. And it was really fun. And then as soon as we'd play games and then we were like, actually, what do you guys do? And we went around the room and I was like, oh, I have this gamification company. And they were like, this makes so much sense. Who brings all these games?
But I just. I love that. And I just think. Think it's such a great way to get to know someone. And if I could have business meetings where we're chatting while playing cards, I would. I would if that was socially acceptable. But maybe not quite there yet. But the fact that I'm able to have a company where we're. I'm showing them games, new games, and we can compete against each other. And it's just. It's just making. It just makes my job so fun.
[00:58:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:58:14] Speaker B: So, yeah, probably a selfish reason is that I just. I love having fun, connecting people.
[00:58:19] Speaker A: That's a great story and it's great to have that shine through and everything that you're kind of working towards now. It's really cool. Yeah. I've never played pasta pigs. Ring of Fire, I remember, was always the game.
Not a good one for a business meeting.
[00:58:31] Speaker B: Yeah, probably not. Well, actually, I don't know if I get to know each other maybe too well and find out some horror stories or something.
[00:58:39] Speaker A: Yeah, probably. Or create new ones.
[00:58:41] Speaker B: Yeah, true.
[00:58:44] Speaker A: Just switching to. Of advice that you've kind of had throughout the last three years, because you've talked a lot about advisors and been really proactive in bringing that in from the beginning, which is really cool. What's the best and worst pieces of advice that you've kind of received over that time? You don't need to name anyone, obviously.
[00:59:06] Speaker B: Best advice, probably to surround yourself with smarter people than you.
I've learned so much just from other people, and it's meant that all my learnings have just been excelled because you're learning off other people, like years of experience from other people. So that's definitely. Just surround yourself with super smart people. I think that's my. The best advice I've ever received and something that I really try and push towards. Worst advice, worst of. I was on a call and it was freezing in my house. Okay. At the time. There's a backstory behind this. It was freezing in my house, so I had, like, a big jumper on. It was my, like, initial meeting with this mentor, and she said, one piece of advice for you is on business calls and meetings. Wear something that's more sophisticated. And I was thinking, like, it's freezing. It's just an online call. Is this an introduction? So I thought that was my worst advice because I think you can wear whatever you want and just, like, show your character through whatever style you want to have. So, yeah, I think that was bad advice.
[01:00:13] Speaker A: Yeah. That's a strange one. I couldn't agree more.
[01:00:15] Speaker B: It's strange, right? Yeah.
But, yeah, that's one that just came to my mind.
[01:00:21] Speaker A: Your mind's not wearing the jumper.
[01:00:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:00:23] Speaker A: Your mind that's doing all of the stuff.
I think on the great advice as well, I totally agree with that. I think it's such an important thing to do and even before you're able to hire people, I think your story and what you've told earlier on is a great way for finders to approach that look for. How can you bring people in just for casual conversations? Grab a coffee with somebody once a month and use them as that sounding board and gain their experience where you can. You don't have to wait until you've got a team there to kind of do that with. I think it's really important and it's come through in everything you've talked about in terms of how you make those decisions early on and making sure that it's not just you and the company that you're making those decisions with the input from others.
[01:01:10] Speaker B: Yeah, 100%.
[01:01:11] Speaker A: Do you have any tips or advice specifically for other entrepreneurs who are looking to start their first company?
[01:01:19] Speaker B: I think people are a lot nicer than you might think and it doesn't take a lot to ask someone to just go for a coffee. People like to help other people. So don't feel like you're asking the world of people to meet and ask for some advice. Just buy them a coffee and they'll give you some really good advice and it'll be the cheapest advice you'll ever get. So I think that's really important is just to, yeah, be confident with asking people, but also give back where you can. So I think it's really nice now that I can meet other founders and help and share any tips that I might. I might have or just repeat what other people have told me, but I think that's just as important. So, yeah, give back, but just don't be afraid. People are lovely and they will help. Especially with all the people that are involved in Codebase and Techscaler, there's always people who just want to help.
[01:02:08] Speaker A: Yeah, I think one of the things I often hear as well is people who are too worried about somebody stealing the idea or learning something about it and so they don't want to talk about it. You go out to America and everybody's talking about everything, you know, you obviously don't give away anything super, you know, whatever. But the idea itself is not what makes the company. So sharing your idea with somebody, getting second opinions on that, getting other perspectives, is only going to make your idea stronger. Yeah, I think that's really great advice for people. And where can listeners go to find out more about your spin or I guess I don't know where people will be listening from, but where they could go and maybe experience the product and things like that.
[01:02:48] Speaker B: Well, our new product, it's called Last Orders and that is coming out very soon. So it'll be mostly in student venues initially, but then we're planning on rolling out. We kind of want it to be like a Strava community so that you can go and support your local venue by playing last orders. And then that venue will be on a leaderboard and you're kind of competing against. Brands will have really fun prizes for the winners and for the winning venues too. So the people that work at the venues will get really cool tickets. It's from the brands for the venues that have the best winterboard. So I think that's really exciting. Can't tell you where it's going live yet, but if you look out on our LinkedIn and things it'll be posted but yeah very excited One of my.
[01:03:32] Speaker A: Next trips to Edinburgh James and I will go and find some last ones.
[01:03:35] Speaker B: Yeah we can go for a drink and play for sure I'm pretty good so it's going to be a pretty.
[01:03:40] Speaker A: Expensive so it's a competitive kind of.
[01:03:43] Speaker B: Game then like so yeah you. You play against your friends at your tables. Whoever gets the highest score can win prizes. So yeah and I haven't rigged it so my developer hasn't made it so that I'll win for time even if I asked him and he said no but yeah just practiced a lot.
[01:03:59] Speaker A: Yeah that's really cool. We'll definitely do that.
[01:04:02] Speaker B: That'd be fun.
[01:04:03] Speaker A: Well really appreciate you taking the time a thanks so much for no, that was really fun.
[01:04:07] Speaker B: That was really fun and let's play pass the pigs now.
[01:04:10] Speaker A: Let's do it. Thanks so much.
