Consuming Consciously with Olivia Parkes

[00:00:00] Speaker A: I think sometimes people look at the end and they go, oh my God, how does she. That's so good. She oversubscribed twice and she, oh, that's amazing. Oh my God, I wish I could. No, it only happened because of everything that came before it. And that was, I think I've said, a two, three year journey of iterations, of setting up a new business, of then trying to stitch together this mvp, prove that people are going to, you know, use it, and then people were paying for it and all of this. During that journey, I kind of mapped out what do I need to be able to build what I would call our first product launch with retailers and yet get enough traction that I could then raise again. [00:00:36] Speaker B: Hello, my name is Hannah, I'm an EIR at Techscaler and this is the Ideas to Impact podcast and I would like to introduce Olivia Parks, who is the founder and CEO of Percy. Yeah, so I'll kick it off. I would love to understand what Percy is and can you explain it to me? Like I'm five and also as if you're a founder pitching it. [00:00:58] Speaker A: So as five, I would say, actually what I say to my five year old called Percy, I would say Mummy's business is we help people shop online using things that you already own in your wardrobe. [00:01:12] Speaker B: So simple. I'm imagining the founder one is identical. [00:01:15] Speaker A: Because that's so different. Yeah. [00:01:17] Speaker B: What more do I need? [00:01:18] Speaker A: There's a couple of extra words in there. [00:01:20] Speaker B: So if you're a yes. So if now if you're the founder, you're pitching an event, how would you sell it? [00:01:26] Speaker A: So I'd say Percy is a B2B personalization tool we integrate with e commerce websites and we power their recommendations based on what consumers already own, what match their style and what they're shopping for. [00:01:38] Speaker B: So as a layman, someone who is not fashion forward, as probably clear between us, I would question that. So I would basically upload pictures of my wardrobe. Would you have to get pictures or descriptions like, do you accept both? [00:01:54] Speaker A: So first of all, we've tried to make the barrier to entry as low as possible because I think initially there's always resistance to new technology. So we've tried to ask as little questions and also only give the option to upload one item rather than the whole wardrobe. That can feel quite overwhelming. So we ask you questions on what are you shopping for? Give us two to three words that would describe your style. Is there anything you'd never wear and then anything else you want to tell us? Upload if you want One item from your wardrobe that we can either build a look around or complete a look for, and then we'll go away and find items from the retailer that you're shopping from based on what you've told us. And that item you've uploaded, which let's say is not from that retailer. [00:02:32] Speaker B: Got it. Would you always recommend it to kind of not be from that retailer so you can start? [00:02:36] Speaker A: No, but I think most of the time that is the case. Right. I mean, even if you have bought. Let's say we are on. I'm going to use Zara as an example. Let's say you're on Zara and you upload a jumper from Zara and even though they know that you've bought that, they are not making recommendations based on necessarily that exact item that you've bought. They might be doing it based on where you clicked on the website or potentially if they're trying to push a new collection or have an overstock. So a lot of the recommendations that or personalization that you currently see on websites are bias, unfortunately. It's based on what you have previously bought from them or where you clicked on their website. But it might be not the specific item in that moment that you were bought. [00:03:15] Speaker B: That's kind of key that it's agnostic, because I feel like are you not constantly marketed to and they're so well optimized for conversion that you kind of feel like you are building their outfit rather than your outfit 100%. [00:03:27] Speaker A: I think the customer just doesn't feel seen as an individual. And the reality is they're not being treated as an individual. They've been treated as groups of people with Personas. You know, often when you're on a product page, you're looking at a pair of jeans. You might get the option of more jeans or more trousers underneath. And then below that you get something called you may also like or other customers bought. Now, that's based on me having bought the same pair of jeans and then I bought this jacket. So then they're going to show you this jacket and you're like, that has nothing to do with me. It's not my style. And I think the reality is, is that we and 20 other women could wear the same pair of jeans and style them totally differently. [00:04:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Case in point, the more fashionable version. And I love it. Do you think limiting it to 1? I totally get your point. You'll have like the statement jacket, as you mentioned before we start recording. Do you think that will ever go to 2 or 3 or 4. Is that the long term vision or do you think there'll become a point where it's like, actually, this is now too complicated? How many items do you think you're going to end up with? [00:04:24] Speaker A: I mean, the idea is that whatever you tell Percy, you tell Percy once and then we know. So the idea is you're building up your wardrobe every time you're coming in shopping with Percy. Right. And also you should be, as we start to launch across other retailers, you'll be cross shopping, you'll be shopping another retailer and they'll know what you uploaded from H and H and M. Let's say you're on Zara and they know that you've bought that item from H and M and then you uploaded that Mango jumper to buy that item from H and M. And when you're on Zara, we're then recommending Zara products based on the knowledge of those other two items. So we will build up your wardrobe and it will get to the point where, yeah, you could upload multiple, but you shouldn't really have to because we're collecting what you've bought, what you've uploaded and we're getting much clearer on who you are and what your wardrobe looks like. [00:05:05] Speaker B: In terms of data privacy, we just touched on different retailers. There will say Zara as a partner or ASOS as a partner or whoever it may be, will they know the brands of the product that I've bought previously so they can use it for market research themselves or it's completely, it's, it's. [00:05:23] Speaker A: So the idea is, is that essentially obviously Percy owns the data, but really the shop owns the data. Right. We will not be sharing any information with the retailer that Percy is plugged into. They will only know what someone has bought from them using Percy. They won't know anything else. What we are looking to do, so we're. When we launch our pilot in a couple of weeks time, it's a six month pilot. Halfway through, we're then going to look at the data we've captured. [00:05:46] Speaker B: Go. [00:05:46] Speaker A: What here is useful to provide, package up and sort of give to the retailers to give them opportunities for growth and insights. Now that isn't going. My name is Olivia, I'm this size. I uploaded my Zara jacket, I'm now buying my. Whatever it's. I. You know, you have 60% of your customers have this item in their wardrobe, but they don't have this go and make it or the majority of your customers, you know, shop based on workwear or occasion. It's those additional insights that are much more, I guess, tangible rather than just giving a retailer a load of data. And the reason also being retailers don't want that data. They want to know more about their customer right now. They don't really want to touch it because of the security around it. Let us do that. That's our job. But it allows them to still get the right product in front of the right customer in the right time. [00:06:33] Speaker B: That makes complete sense. On that recommendation front, do you think you might get some criticism that you're working, or maybe work with fast fashion brands of being like, here's my say jacket and you're working with a fast fashion brand and here are all the clothes you could buy. And there's an argument that does that contribute to it? Does it not contribute to it? Where do you think you fit in that pipeline that has received criticism and do you think you can kind of change it slightly to make it a bit more sustainable? [00:07:07] Speaker A: Yeah, no, definitely. No, definitely. I mean, I'm always really careful not to greenwash because. Because I'm a technology company, I can't influence the sustainable approach that the retailers take that I'm plugged in with. But what I can do in terms of the customer journey is promote a more conscious way of consuming. So I'm allowing people to purchase based on items they've already owned. So you often in your wardrobe, I think it's something like people wear 20% of their wardrobe and the remaining just sits there. And half the time it's because I said I love that. I don't want to get rid of it, but I still don't know how to wear. I don't know how to like update that look or like just understanding different ways in which you can wear your wardrobe but still buying you. But maybe not buying the full outfit new because you've actually already got a jacket just like it at home. So I think what I like to speak to with Percy is we try and encourage and support the shopper to shop more consciously and to be more aware of what they're purchasing, if they need it, how they'll wear it, versus just going in and kind of knee jerk. Especially when it comes to fast fashion that's more affordable potentially buying items they don't already, you know, they already own or they don't need. [00:08:12] Speaker B: I mean, I always find that it's sometimes so cheap that you're just like, throw it in the basket, throw it in the basket. And then I never end up wearing it. [00:08:17] Speaker A: This is it. [00:08:18] Speaker B: I'm a Bit of a. What is it? I'm in a bit of my glass house on this side of the table. [00:08:22] Speaker A: It's impulse. Yeah, 100% it's impulse. But it's like when you're queuing in store and along that queue, you've got all those little bits and bobs that they're like. I mean, TK Maxx does it really well. Primark used to do it really well. Ooh, need that. Oh, lip balm. Don't need that. And I think that's the point, right? It's the upsell side of it. And look, we essentially are upselling because we are recomm looks, but we're upselling based on context, knowing that it's going to go with something you're looking for and therefore, actually that allows you to buy something quicker based on what we know you're looking for, rather than, when are you going to wear that bag. [00:08:53] Speaker B: What do you think is the value proposition then, between. So you've got all these recommendations that you get at the bottom, like, people, I'm a sucker for that. I'm like, I see the model and I go, well, I want to look. I want to like, she looks cool. I'd love to have that. There's a recommendation there already. What do you think? Pursuit offers. That's not currently. I appreciate you can upload something different, but let's just say you're uploading a black Jack. You can buy a black jacket from every retailer. Where do you think you are one up from that recommendation or customers also. [00:09:20] Speaker A: Bought the current ones? Well, I think I've mentioned already, so the current sort of personalization that is being offered is biased because it is based on the data of what you have purchased from a single retailer and where they have clicked on a website. So if you've previously bought something red and then you click on a T shirt, you're going to get shown a red T shirt. That's not really relevant to what you're looking for. Additionally, it can be influenced by the retailer in terms of a new collection they're trying to push or an overstock. So that bias is, in my opinion, where personalization is currently falling down. It's not servicing the individual shopper. Additionally, like you say, great, that you might like the way they've styled it. That's the whole point. But the reality is not everyone is going to like that one way that they can see it pictured and they want to understand the different ways they can wear it. Right. So we're giving them the opportunity to Understand that based on them as an individual. And in addition, even if, let's say I do like it, half the time you click through and it's out of stock in your size and you're like, you know, that again, ends that journey. So we're only going to recommend something based on it being in your size. So again, it's just trying to make sure that that journey for the consumer is smoother. And we do increase conversion rate based on that. [00:10:28] Speaker B: You're a B2B play now. So if I think of, let's say, Sheen, for example, Shein. I'm not sure how to, not sure how to say it. They obviously have a vast array of products versus, say, I don't know, say Prada. They don't produce as many. Is. Is it more viable for you to have a, a fashion brand that has a larger cross section of clothes or a smaller cross section of clothes? What. Where do you. [00:10:53] Speaker A: So I would say it's more valuable for the retailer. So I would say Percy has a really strong proposition for a retailer that has a larger spread because the discovery for the consumer, or the shopper, as we call them, is so much trickier. Right. And the same with a marketplace. Where do I even begin? Like, half the time, even if you think you want a white shirt, you're like, do I want a short sleeve? A crop crop. Oversized. And there's just. It's just so much. It's overwhelming. Right. So the discovery for those retailers is really tricky. And they are always trying to find out how do I surface the right product for the right customer in the right time. So in that sense, I think it's better for Percy, in terms of sorry for them to use Percy, but Percy can still work with small retailers because I think the beauty is as well, is as we build what we kind of call that flywheel effect as we launch with more retailers and the shopper continues to use us because we are showing up on retailers that they're shopping with. They. It doesn't matter how big or small, they're going to land on that retailer and immediately get recommendations based on what they previously told us. So that journey is so much quicker, even if it maybe was a few less clicks because they don't have as broad a category or something. [00:11:59] Speaker B: Do you think it'll ever get to a point where just uploading, say, your clothes, you can upload, say, your own dimensions so you can start getting even more of an understanding of what will. [00:12:09] Speaker A: Look good with that product? [00:12:10] Speaker B: And also what looks good on you is that Kind of. Is that a long term goal or. [00:12:14] Speaker A: Yeah, so obviously that's sort of leaning into like the sizing. Yes. And that is a really hard problem to solve. In fact, one of our first iterations was going after that with made to order. And to be honest, I don't think anyone is solving it well right now. So we've kind of gone. Do you know what? Right now there's a lot of people trying to do it. I don't think anyone's got it. Got it right. We're gonna bench that. I'm gonna make sure. If you tell me you're a 10, I'm gonna recommend you a 10, it's gonna be available in that size. But I don't know if a 10 in that retailer is actually the right size for you. I think there's opportun partner with some of those other players that are out there and doing quite a good job. True fit is one of them, for example. So we could integrate their questions and their solutions as part of the Percy journey. So not only are we recommending the right style, but we're also recommending the right size. But I think in terms of fit and body shape, which you were kind of pointing to, if we know some of that information, we're looking at how much of that we want to ask up front. Again, we're trying to not ask too much, but I think as we move through and we get to know the shopper better, you know, what is. How would you describe your body shape? You know, this traditional trial triangle, you know, invert, triangle, square. [00:13:20] Speaker B: I'm also not sure that matches up with how you see yourself. [00:13:22] Speaker A: I agree. And this is another thing. And like some people have trying to solve that by taking pictures, but then again, the shopper doesn't really want to share that. So like I said, it's a whole nother world. But what I think I will start, we will start to understand is based on your size, what you're buying, what you're telling us you like, what proportions are going to work for you as well. And we do know your height and we do know your size, top and bottom, so we can start to build that picture. Anyway. [00:13:47] Speaker B: Do you think your recommendation engine, is that probably what you call it? Yeah. So obviously you kind of probably factor in with height that way. Do you take into consideration, say seasons or trends? Like how are your trends dictated? Are they dictated by the retailers or are you scraping separately to do analysis? How does that work in terms of fluctuations throughout the year? [00:14:13] Speaker A: So in terms of what we Recommend it will be based on the retailer, because it's based on whether they have bought in and designed a trend. We can then recommend it. But the knowledge of the trend is based on us putting that into what we call our style intelligence. And that really is the piece of the AI that governs what we believe, does and doesn't go together and essentially is what you'd get from a personal stylist. That's what we've baked into that now. That will continually evolve as new trends come in. Also, as we go into different markets, let's say we're launching with more US focused retailers. We need to make sure that we have got those additional trends and considerations as well. As we move into men's in the future, we need to make sure that that whole kind of style intelligence is fed in. So that will be a continually evolving process and we work with stylists to continually sort of add that in and make sure we are up to date as well. I think also with trends, you have to be very careful with shoppers because it's a case of that might be a trend, but it might not be right for you. And I always speak to this where I'm like, oh, my God, I love. I can't think of one right now. Like the mini skirts and they had like the micro. Like, my husband will tell me I am too old for that stuff now and I'm kind of going to take that back. I'm like, I'll take it. So, like, that might have been a trend about, like six months ago or something. I am not going to buy into that trend and I wouldn't necessarily be recommending that for everyone. So it's, again, kind of what Percy should be doing is recommending you items for you. And if that means that they think the trend that is current, let's say it's the suede bomber jackets that are at the moment, then we're going to recommend that. But it's not because it's a trend, it's because it's a trend that matches your needs and your style. [00:15:44] Speaker B: I think that's nice to know because I feel like there's a massive danger that you could fall into. Here's a new trend. Buy new clothes. Which is entirely, I would say. I mean, maybe that might be the aim, but from what I understand, it's not the aim of the company. You want to be a bit more sustainable, a bit more, I guess, knowledge behind people buying clothes. So trends probably don't want to recommend them all. Have you done research in the US yet, or is that the next phase, do you think it's going to be much different to the uk? There's a lot of alignment, but there's also a lot of. Lot of differences. [00:16:18] Speaker A: There is. And to be honest, it's not even definite if the US will be the next step. It probably makes sense in terms of size of market. And look, a lot of the retailers that we are looking to, what we're speaking to at the moment, are looking to be launching with. They will. They have US customers that essentially could be using the tool. So we could be tapping into, because we know the retailer and the style and they're originally a sort of, let's say, mostly British fashion brand, then those trends. And that style is more British as well. [00:16:44] Speaker B: Yes, I don't travel across the. [00:16:46] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Again, I think it depends on the retailers we're going to be working with and it might be that we. Therefore, it makes more sense to sort of expand within Europe first because there's a lot more kind of cross trends. When you look at the fashion weeks as well. Look, there is always something specific to each fashion week, from, you know, Milan to New York to London to Paris, but it's still kind of. You're seeing similar trends coming through. Like, basically, I've seen the suede coming through, I've seen the lace, I've seen the balloon pants, I've seen the argyle prints, like. And you're seeing a little bit of them in all the fashion weeks because I think they do translate in a certain way. [00:17:19] Speaker B: Going back to the recommendation engine, which I'm guessing will have to be location based, maybe a little bit. Your background's not in AI. Obviously your background, you've got what, 11, 16 years, was it? [00:17:33] Speaker A: Oh, gosh. So maybe now 15 years, like brand marketing. [00:17:37] Speaker B: And obviously you've transitioned. How did you learn about AI? Is it kind of just like, well, you know what? This is what I want to do. I'm going to have to go on ChatGPT and ask the stupid questions. Is it that how do you upskill yourself when you're not in university, when you're not techie? It's overwhelming. Picking up a language is overwhelming. Yeah, talk me through that. [00:17:58] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, to be honest, let's even just start with tech. Not even AI. Right. I totally get you. I would say as we went through the pivots and the product became pure tech, I had this real kind of fear and imposter syndrome of I am not a tech founder, I have no tech background. I'm never even gonna try and claim. It's just not in my wheelhouse. And so many people at the beginning, and I wanna say this, probably about two years ago, were saying, you will never fundraise or be successful if you do not find a CTO co founder. And I, I tried. I. I dated a few. Right. Basically when I met a few. And I mean, it's like, oh, don't get me started on this. I have so many analogies literally have run true. But I think where I got to is I knew enough about what I needed to do manually and that a lot of that came from me doing a manual MVP at the end of last year where I was offering the service. You would send me a picture of three items in your wardrobe, and I would build a full look around it, including links to it. Wasn't the AI doing it. I was styling until midnight every night for two months. My husband despaired of me. And that's because I needed to find out, is this how people want to shop? And what. What are the levers that indicate style? And so I kind of worked out that. And then I was like, right, I now need. Just need AI to speed this up. Which obviously, that is the whole premise of AI, Right. So that was kind of as much as I knew. And then I knew that I just needed to find the right tech partner to help me do it. And during that journey, I'd kind of. I spoken to agencies and I'd had other advisors across tech, across Shopify, personalization come in and, like, meet those agencies. And I kind of landed on one that I felt really comfortable with. But at that point, the whole point was like, I actually am going to do this without bringing on someone in house. I have to trust that this agency can do it for the first year until I get product market fit. [00:19:44] Speaker B: So a lot of commitment. [00:19:45] Speaker A: Yeah. And I couldn't, I didn't. I wasn't raising enough money to cover a cto. I didn't want to give away too much of my business to someone that I didn't know if they were the right partner and if, you know, they. They believed in my vision and also if they understood me. And. But that, I mean, I feel like I need a communicator, a translator, and I'm sure they would, too. Like, I am so much the kind of big picture throwing out all these ideas or bombs, as my agency now call them. You know, can we do this? Let's do this. What about this? I need someone to translate that into kind of like this is what makes sense from a technical point of view. And it just so happened that I was delivered this angel that is now my cto, but comes from more of a product background, who literally downloaded my head and my heart and then was able to kind of put that into tech roadmap and make sure that the agency that I had previously selected, although he did meet other agencies, he was like, no, they're the right ones that, you know, they were going to do the right thing, prioritize the right products, you know, build the right tech stack, et cetera. But I just had to talk to as many people as I could at the same time be confident that I didn't need to be inherently technical and I didn't need to build myself. And as long as I had a clear enough vision that I'd be able to communicate that to the right people. [00:20:50] Speaker B: To build it, I mean, it's a very vulnerable position to be in. Like, when you talk about, like that translator, I guess if you're. If you're like saying you go for an interview, you can and you've got a language translator, they're always accredited. Get a CTO tech translator or not. Do you think. Did you ever feel that people were maybe fobbing you off when you were meeting ctos? [00:21:13] Speaker A: Yes. Or like, kind of. [00:21:15] Speaker B: Or they'd overcomplicate it. [00:21:16] Speaker A: I found. Yeah. Or if anything, just be like, they wouldn't even highlight the issues. They'd be like, yeah, that's not a problem. That's easy for us to deal with. This is it? Right? What's the reality? And especially at that point, I trying to get an understanding of cost to feed into my business model to then allow me to raise the right amount of money. Because I needed to make sure I wasn't going to investors going, I need this to build this for this amount of Runway. They give it to me, and then two months down the line, I've spent all the money that I had for tech, and we've not got to the end of a product. So that was another fear of mine. Like, is this actually the cost? And then turn it around on the other side. If you talk to an agent, you say, I need to know the cost because I'm gonna go speak to investors. How do I know they're not giving me an inflated cost? Because they know I'm going to go and fundraise for it. And is that tr. So you're right. There was a lot of, like, there was a lot of trust, like, that I had to kind of understand do I take this as golden. The reality is I think you should have to do your homework. And like I said, I had enough advisors around me that I kept stress testing because I couldn't, for want of a better word, interrogate these CTOs. You don't know what you don't know. Exactly. I was not the right person to do that, but I was the only person that could also do it. So that was definitely a challenge. And I think I was very. Look, I hate to say lucky because people are always like, it's not luck. Like I do think, I think luck is involved. [00:22:34] Speaker B: The whole companies are successful and companies are not successful purely down to luck and not being lucky. Right place, right time. I'm not saying there isn't skill involved, but I think there's a hell of a lot of luck. [00:22:44] Speaker A: I think it's luck. But the only reason maybe that luck is there cause you've got yourself there, or the only reason that maybe you could say, oh, I was lucky is cause maybe you took advantage of the opportunity that was there. You saw it that other people might not. I think that's what I mean when I say I don't know if it's. It's just luck. But you know, when it came down to Matt, who is my cto, I met him last December. And it's purely because we were in the same workplace, as you know, we had a mutual friend who went into labor the day we were meant to all meet. So she was like, I can't come in. It'll just be you and Matt. Like he's this fractional cpo. He might be able to help you with your pilot. And we just got chatting and then left it. And then a month later met at the same workplace he was, I can automate some of what you're doing very manually. I'm not going to charge you. I'll just like see if I can help you out. And then during that process, we both kind of like looked at each other and we were like, I think there might be something here. And this is where it was like. And I was like, look, I can't promise you I can't afford you right now, but I'm raising and it's going really well. So I might, it might be able to like, shall we just date and see how it is? And during that process, we started to understand how each other worked. I could also slightly stress test his technical understanding too. And then, by the point of which I'd closed the fundraiser, we'd been doing this for like four months. And I felt like I was ready to make a proposal. [00:24:01] Speaker B: I was gonna say that sounds so short, but it's almost like, I guess it is like dating. So if you know, you know, it's like you have to have that every day trust. And what do you think the biggest difference was between the CTOs you'd met prior and Matt, would you say? [00:24:16] Speaker A: I think. What do I think? So I'm not building something highly technical. It's not deep techn check. And therefore, I actually had come to the conclusion that I didn't need a cto, I needed a cpo. And this was before Matt. And the reason being is because I needed someone to understand more about the journey and not just the process, like how it looked and what we were learning and then the data that we got from it and what we used with it. So it felt less deep tech and more kind of like customer journey, UI as well as then the AI that kind of then, you know, bolsters that and supports it. And so. So I think the people I was meeting, a lot of CTOs that were quite deeply technical and they want to go into all the different layers that mean nothing. It's like Chinese to me. It means nothing to me. Right. That this whole language thing. And what Matt did, he was able to communicate back to me exactly what my vision was and then what that would look like from a technical point of view. So I was getting both sides. And then I would get on a call with the agency and he's talking to them and I'm literally sick. I still do it now, I'm not kidding you. Last week. And I was like, I've got no idea who were talking about. [00:25:20] Speaker B: You just see it on the. When you're on the Zoom call and you're like, oh, right. [00:25:23] Speaker A: He's like, have you got any thoughts? And I'm like, when am I going to get it? [00:25:26] Speaker B: But I think that translation piece is. I mean, it's a tale as old as time. Like, we speak to so many people who are, like, in tech scaling. [00:25:33] Speaker A: We work with quite a lot of. [00:25:34] Speaker B: The universities and they'll be telling me a product and I'll kind of get it. But that translation piece of being like, yeah, we have this really, like, super impressive product. Tell me in a way that makes it a product. And I think that bridge cannot be understated, overstated. I don't know which one. Whichever one it is, it's important, underestimated. Like, it really is. That translation piece is what makes or break that Tech product. [00:25:56] Speaker A: Yeah. I think it's understanding the vision. And I think the other thing Matt does really well. Like, I say, I will throw bombs, idea bombs here, there, and everywhere. Right. And I won everything yesterday. And he does not shut me down, but he manages my expectations. So it's like, Liv, I love that. This is really. I'm going to put that on our roadmap, but we do need to focus on this. This has to be the priority. And he'll keep playing it back to me. He manages me and then manages the agen. This was on our sprint for that. We're not there. Let's look at the reality of where we sit, because I need to play that back to Liv, who plays that back to a retailer, whatever. So he's literally playing a kind of game of chess with, like, two. Like, it's like he's sitting in the middle, and he's working with the two different sides of it, and he's got to bring them together. That is a skill. [00:26:41] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I completely agree with that. And I also think you saying, like, manager, you. I found when I had my company, I was surrounded by very, very good people, and that's the reason it lasted, or I lasted as long as I did. Because they know how to talk to you. They use your language. They get it. [00:26:58] Speaker A: They. [00:26:58] Speaker B: They know what you don't know. [00:26:59] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:27:00] Speaker B: Which I think. I think really is key. And then also. [00:27:04] Speaker A: No, I was gonna say, for want of a better word, but, like, I think your original question, like, what is different? Like, a lot of CTOs would, like, piss on my parade, right? So I'm like, I want this. This. And it's like, yeah, you're not gonna get it. And it's kind of, if anything. And I'm a bit like this in life anyway, because they made it feel maybe negative, and they didn't mean to. They were being very factual. Because a lot of. I think. I think people that have that way of their brain operating, it's just a different form of communication. Right? Yeah. And I'm like, just say it nicely. Like, that's just how I operate. I respond better to that. And I think that's what works for Matt, is that he does it in such a gentle and, like, encouraging way, even though the reality is he's probably still going, no. Do you know what I mean? [00:27:42] Speaker B: This is terrible. You know what? We'll just park back. [00:27:45] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. But I'm okay with that. [00:27:46] Speaker B: Live. Love it. We'll put it on the spread. But I think that's so Key. Someone who speaks your language. [00:27:51] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. [00:27:52] Speaker B: And can translate all the other languages. [00:27:53] Speaker A: Yes. [00:27:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I totally resonate with that. Speaking of people, obviously you work with one of our mentors, Julie Greave. Brilliant. But I'm gonna ask, obviously you've got. I'm guessing you guys have had such a fantastic relationship. Has she ever been harsh with you in terms of, like, you need to either stop doing this or what are you doing? Can you share if she wouldn't mind as well? [00:28:19] Speaker A: I mean, a little bit of background. My relationship with Julia, we were matched in my first tech scale at Accelerator. So it has been over. Gosh, it must be like going on a year and a half, I want to say. And the way it was originally pitched is I had a session with her, I think it was once a month. Now, Julie's background is B2B and it's not in the same industry. So I'll be honest, and I think I've said this to her before, before I met her, I was thinking, I'm not sure how much this woman is going to be able to help me when we're on such. We've been on such different journeys. Could I have been more wrong? Because I've had other people that are like, perfect retail tech kind of background, and then I've come away with no new knowledge. And every single time I meet Julie and a lot of the times nowadays I don't even go in with the gender and I come away and I'm like, I got so much from that conversation. Like, honestly, she is. She is an angel for me, but I think what she does really beautifully and I think we've built. And funny, we've only met once where we literally didn't let go of each other basically the whole time. But we've only really been online, but we've really got to know each other is. She's held me in a way that has been like, sometimes snap out of it, Liv. Like, you need to get over that or you need to move on or you need to stop kind of like dwelling or woe is me. [00:29:27] Speaker B: Can you give an example of that? [00:29:28] Speaker A: I'm just trying to think. Well, I would definitely give one because that's what I'm like. I feel like when I was going through all the challenges with the previous business, when I was parting from a co founder and then obviously having to close down a previous business as well, I was faced with some really stark, quite scary realities. One of which was like, you might not setting up the new business, you might not get your SEIs, because it might be seen as something it's not, and you might be left with this loan, and you might. That's it. It, like, you can't set up a business again. You're not going to be able to get it right. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm here, like, two and a half years down the line. I've got validation. I know people want it. But I couldn't raise because of my challenges with seis from the error my previous co founder unfortunately had made. And I now needed to let previous investors know. And then I needed to find a way to set up a new business with no money and this festival. And it was. It was where Julia was kind of like, look, the reality is this might not work, but if you don't try, you're never going to know. So let's just focus on what you need to do. You're going to close it, and by the next time I speak to you, I want this, this, and this. And that's exactly what happened. And so she was quite kind of like. I'd say more like just honest and quite straight with me and not doing what Matt was doing, where you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's still a no. It was actually bigger. [00:30:39] Speaker B: Everyone's got a place in the founder journey. [00:30:41] Speaker A: But she was. We'd already. We knew each other so well by then. Like, I. I could receive that. Do you know what I mean? And if anything, I needed that in that moment. And like, even, like, sometimes I got on the call and I was in tears being like, oh, my God, like, this could all go wrong. And she's like, liv, it's really hard. Hard, yeah. And I was like, yeah. She was like, that's all I'm gonna say. Like, you know, just leaving me with that. Like, that's okay. That I can't give you the answers, but I'll sit here with you. Let's see what we can work through in the next hour and, like, what we can get you to focus on for the next four weeks. [00:31:08] Speaker B: No, I. I really resonate with that. Like, I think I'll maybe start a business again in the future. But you're always like, oh, the last one didn't go well, so you're gonna be credible. Have you got the confidence? Like, a lot of it's such a personal journey. [00:31:20] Speaker A: She gave me that confidence, I have to say. [00:31:22] Speaker B: Like, even just like a hype man. [00:31:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:24] Speaker B: Singers have them 100. Founders need them 100. [00:31:28] Speaker A: And then. [00:31:28] Speaker B: Yeah, in terms of not knowing. They always say, what is it in sport you don't get. It doesn't get easier, you just get faster. [00:31:35] Speaker A: Interesting. [00:31:35] Speaker B: And I'm like, yeah, that sums it up. Like the days are the same. You're just dealing with more zeros or. Yeah. [00:31:41] Speaker A: More criticism. Dwell on it so. So much. Because you're like, I've seen worse than this. Or like, I know there's worse to come, so I'm just gonna keep moving. [00:31:48] Speaker B: Yeah, the. So you said you've only met Julie in person once. [00:31:52] Speaker A: Once at another accelerator. And I literally went straight over to her and we hugged and we literally didn't let go. [00:31:59] Speaker B: That was so nice. [00:31:59] Speaker A: It was so. And I was like, I don't wanna let go. She's like, I know. It was so nice. And that had been a year since. And we'd been having a call, one hour call once a month. [00:32:08] Speaker B: So that's from. So you'd meet her with like Techscaler mentorship online and then you met her up here. So on that note, so obviously you're based in London at the moment and you come up and visit. What do you think that Scotland. I'll ask Techscaler as well, but what do you think Scotland offers you that maybe London doesn't at the moment? Cause obviously there's, there's, there'll always be a reason someone comes up here. [00:32:29] Speaker A: What. [00:32:29] Speaker B: What's your reason for finding value in Scotland vs London? [00:32:33] Speaker A: So my original reason was that my previous co founder was Scottish and lived in Scotland, so we registered it here. And then from that we really built out quite a kind of ecosystem and a community that was very much based in Scotland. So we had a partnership with Sterling University, which we still have. We did two different projects with them. We then had a really good relationship with Scottish Enterprise. They supported us on a number of things. And through that I got pulled into the Scottish ecosyste system of not just tech, female founders and then also investment. And I think the difference that I found from Scotland to London was just how much more friendly, how much more inclusive and how much like the level at which certainly. And this is a tech scale, I think the level at which the accelerators, the quality of speakers and information they were providing and the structure that the program sort of had was just at a different level. And I think then when I set up my new business, by that point I had the relationship still with Sterling. Part of some of my team are up. I've got my accountant up here, I have a designer up here as well. And then I Just felt like the focus on tech innovation was so much more concentrated in Scotland that I knew it was where I wanted to be. And the goal will be potentially to hire our tech team up here as well. Matt used to live in Edinburgh as well because he was working for another startup up here. So he kind of has a bit of a network as well. And we know the value and let's be honest, it's also more affordable as well then in life. [00:34:01] Speaker B: London when you joined Techscaler. [00:34:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:04] Speaker B: We all. What, what, what did you want? Secretly, what did you want? Like obviously we want to offer things to people that are actually worthwhile rather than just people joining because there's no point in you joining if we don't get something out of it. What did you want? [00:34:15] Speaker A: Well, the first thing I actually wanted was what the end goal was always investment. Right. But I think when I, because I've done two tech scalers and my first one it was also testing, improving the concept. And then, let's be honest, over those two years I kept pivoting and iterating because of the learning earnings that I had, what I needed to do to get to investment. I didn't get the traction I needed, I didn't get the fit that I needed. So I kept pivoting. So that was kind of the first thing. And I think what tech scaler did was take me through the motions of what does it look like to build a business? What do you need to raise investment? What are the expectations? And let's be honest, it's like a whole degree, like learning how to build a business when you haven't done that. And then what's expected to fundraise and going through the fundraising journey, like you don't, no one teaches, teaches you that. So that's where accelerators for me have just been invaluable. And I literally feel like I did like a three year degree in like that condensed, what is it, like six, eight week period. [00:35:05] Speaker B: Well, it's really tough as well because I remember when I was raising and then someone asked me if you've got a financial plan. I went, I was like, oh, you're supposed to have that. And I look back now and I go, God, what an idiot. [00:35:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:14] Speaker B: But then when I'm at the time, I'm like, I think I was 22 or something. I how do you learn that? [00:35:19] Speaker A: And also what if you got a deck? And I'm like, I can build a deck. And they're like, oh, you know, I need a go, a gtm. And I Need. I need a financial model and I need your roadmap and all. And I'm like, most of it's made. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I'm like going, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they're like, I need to start with the problem. Then you need to go look at your market size. I mean, I literally, it was going like this and I was like, I don't. So then you obviously go and do your research. But I think the beauty of an accelerator is they're hand holding you through it and at the same point you can go, is this right? Is it not? Because you're being given tasks and you're speaking, you get the opportunity to speak to people that are experts in that space as well as just general founders that have gone through the journey as well. [00:35:54] Speaker B: I was going to say experts at this point is almost like interchange. Interchangeable with experience. [00:35:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:57] Speaker B: Like on that iteration point, what's the worst idea you've had? When you could look, think back and go, what was I thinking? [00:36:04] Speaker A: I mean, I had an idea at uni I've had. My dad is an entrepreneur, right. So I've grown up always wanting to have my own business and had these aspirations of being this entrepreneur, whatever that meant. So I was always trying to come up with the idea. And one was a wedding planning business, which, I mean, I even did the business model. And again, I Googled what is a business model. I mean, I wrote the business plan. [00:36:24] Speaker B: Let'S chat GPT now, literally, that's. [00:36:26] Speaker A: Back then it was like, Google, go. One of them was, my mum is a yoga teacher as well. And it was about. It was like eye masks. You know, you get those, like lavender scented, like, eye masks that like put pressure on you and you kind of do your Shavasana and it's all very relaxing. You can go to sleep with it. Right? It was eye mask, but they were personalized and it was like there was different ingredients in the inside based on what you were looking for in terms of your chill, like whether it's like lavender or rosemary and then different, different weights and all this kind of thing. To be honest, it wasn't a terrible idea. I look at it now and there's. And this eye mask I spent far too much money on, which is like a duvet for my face and I use it every night and I can't sleep without it. So I'm like, it wasn't terrible, but it was one of those, like, but why? And when it's really expensive. You know what I mean? [00:37:10] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:37:11] Speaker A: It didn't get past the. I've got an idea. [00:37:14] Speaker B: So no investment on that one? [00:37:16] Speaker A: No, that one didn't quite make it. Seriously. [00:37:18] Speaker B: Did get invested. [00:37:19] Speaker A: It did. [00:37:19] Speaker B: Well, you personally, they'd ask me, got your personal investment. Yes, but in terms of other people's money, proceeds obviously raise investment. [00:37:26] Speaker A: Congratulations. [00:37:29] Speaker B: Tell me about it. How did you do it? How did it start? Why did you pick. What was it? 660 you've raised? [00:37:34] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, a bit random. [00:37:36] Speaker B: Yeah, they're all a bit random. [00:37:38] Speaker A: We'll get there. [00:37:39] Speaker B: How did you get to 660? Is probably the overarching question. But what is the story from start to finish? [00:37:45] Speaker A: And it is a story for sure. Like I think sometimes people look at the end and they go, oh my God, how does she. That's so good. She oversubscribed twice and she oh, that's amazing. Oh my God, I wish I could. No, it only happened because of everything that came before it. And that was, I think I've said, a two, three year journey of iterations of setting up a new business of then trying to stitch together this mvp, prove that people are going to, you know, use it and then people were paying for it and all of this during that journey I kind of mapped out what do I need to be able to build what I would call our first product launch with retailers and yet get enough traction that I could then raise again. And so I landed on 350. I'm not going to lie, at one stage I was raising a million, then it was like 750, then it was 250. I was going up and down. 350 gave me an 18 month Runway on a very. There was no CTO is very, very tight. It was no marketing. So I went out in February this year and I went out to raise 350 and within three weeks I had 670 on the table and Good problem to have. Yeah, it is. Now the only reason I did is because the two investors that are now my lead investors I'd met The summer before, one had come to me through a LinkedIn post where I'd post put out this very clickbaity post around. [00:38:53] Speaker B: You are a lighting queen. [00:38:54] Speaker A: I'm now I will. [00:38:55] Speaker B: I would have to commend you if I ever need a LinkedIn advertising of any, of any kind, I love it. Would. [00:39:03] Speaker A: You know what, that's great. I've achieved that because I was not that. That was, that was a goal of mine. And the reason being is because of that 6-760-that I raised, I think it's 440 was from LinkedIn and I'll tell you why in a minute, which is wild. And it's a free platform. So this. I basically put out a clickbaity post about should I pay to pitch? And I'd LinkedIn a guy that was quite well known in the VC world who I'd had a call with and we'd had this conversation and I knew his network was good and because he was LinkedIn to my now investor, this guy saw it and although I'd been rejected by this VC twice before, he was then like pitched to me. [00:39:37] Speaker B: So sorry, can I just ask on so rejected twice, does that mean you applied twice? [00:39:40] Speaker A: I had in the previous iterations. [00:39:42] Speaker B: I love the fact that you. That you went back. [00:39:43] Speaker A: Oh yeah. But if you think about I did. I went back four times because the first time it was a straight no. Then we picked because we were B2C or D2C then and they are B2B investors. Then I'd pivoted to kind of technically B2B2C but it. The, the product wasn't there. It was a no before we even pitched. And then he came to me and was interested, but because I only had 70k of SEIS, he couldn't invest because their business model is based on invest taking the SEIs because they're early stage. So he then saw me make the decision to close the business, do all the things that I've spent, spoken about the MVP rebrand, now it's named after my son as well as being ingrained in personalization, so it's way more me. And he then I then basically sent them an email every month going, I'm gonna do this at the end of the month. I was like, I've done it now I'm gonna do this. So I did that for about six months. So they'd saw that whole journey and the same with the other syndicate. [00:40:32] Speaker B: Did you just really want them? [00:40:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I bet it basically manifested. I go, I want Hatch and I want esf. [00:40:37] Speaker B: The logo on. [00:40:38] Speaker A: I literally, I literally. I have a vision board that I did with my chairman and we look at it every time we meet up. It's at her apartment. We did it last December and it has them on it. [00:40:48] Speaker B: Manifesting. [00:40:49] Speaker A: Literally did manifest it. I thought it was like either or, but I got both, which was obviously amazing. So anyway, they'd seen me go through those challenges and I think at this stage of investment, the risk they are taking is not on the idea, it's on the founders and therefore if you can reduce that risk by showing those attributes that they look for, resilience, determination, sometimes true stupidity and that kind of tenacity. [00:41:09] Speaker B: Always a little bit of stupidity. [00:41:10] Speaker A: They're like, great. I love bit of crazy. [00:41:12] Speaker B: Yep. I don't think you'd be a founder if you would. [00:41:14] Speaker A: That's true. [00:41:14] Speaker B: You know what I mean? [00:41:15] Speaker A: You've got. [00:41:16] Speaker B: I think I'm gonna make all this money. It's like, yeah, right. Yeah, we're in. [00:41:18] Speaker A: Watch me. [00:41:19] Speaker B: Yeah, you tell me. [00:41:20] Speaker A: I can't. I'm doing it. So I think that is why they both came in. Anyway, they both came in and they said, we want you to raise more because in the market currently we're seeing that runways are shorter than people think. And also raising seed is harder. So I agreed to increase to 650 based on an increase in valuation, which they agreed. And then I said to the syndicate, would they come in 50k less if I can go out on LinkedIn and try and find some female angels? Because I had really struggled to find female angels. [00:41:48] Speaker B: Were they exclusively men that you've got? [00:41:50] Speaker A: So in the syndicate, the people in the. At the. In the end, I didn't know this at this stage, there are two angels in there, but I haven't met them and I didn't know them and then their VCs. VC. And my contacts were men. [00:42:01] Speaker B: Okay. [00:42:02] Speaker A: So I not only wanted female angels because as a female founder, I'd had the challenges on this side and I know the challenges on the other side in terms of female angels, but also because they are my first adopters so they will live and breathe and use the product. So I wanted that on my cap table. And so I just put a post out on LinkedIn saying exactly that. We've like oversubscribed. I've ring fenced my last 50k. I'm looking for female angels if. If your retail and or tech background bonus, but really I just someone that want people that believe in my vision. And you also don't have to invest before. Like it's small tickets are open. So within a day I had 10 meetings in the diary and then the next day I had 176k pledged for the 50k. And so which was wild. At the same time, I mean, you should have seen me. I kept coming down the stairs because I had back to backs. I didn't even put in pee breaks. Right back to back calls in that day just to fit it all in. And I was running downstairs whilst I was like being a minute late for the next meeting going for my husband. I've got 90k, I've got 100. Oh my God. [00:42:57] Speaker B: It's like that ticket counter, you know, like, you know, we see on Facebook, it's like, oh, we've got this many likes. [00:43:01] Speaker A: Which is funny because I'd already essentially got the 650 confirmed, but yet this meant more because I think of how I was getting it and also the women were unreal. So I took eight of the 10 calls, all of which brought added value. All these women had something incredible to bring. And I said, what is your lowest ticket you will come in at? And then I increased it to 660 because that didn't change my equity target that I wanted, but it meant I could get in two more angels. And then I closed. [00:43:28] Speaker B: Who do you think you say having females on the cap table is really, really important? Do you think when you do your next round you're gonna kind of follow the same strategy of like ring fencing it for women, or do you think it'll be a bit more almost like open season at that point? [00:43:44] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a really good question. I think one of the things I was very proud of by doing that is that a, I'd kind of used a free platform to not only promote my business, but reach people that I've, I've still never met. Right. I'm meeting two of my angels tonight for the first time at an event, which is awesome. But also of those angels, five of them were first time angel investors. And the reason that they hadn't invested before was mixed. But like, one of them didn't think she could, she didn't think she had enough money. And the reality is she didn't need as much as she thought. The others just haven't started that journey yet and didn't really know where to start. And like how they would source some of these deals as well. And LinkedIn, they'd all been following my journey, my journey that I'd built up. I'd had that honest communication of the challenges I'd had. As you know, I sort of blast it all across LinkedIn. [00:44:33] Speaker B: I love it. Even I'm invested in journey. [00:44:35] Speaker A: Like this was the beauty. [00:44:37] Speaker B: You see, it's almost like you grow with you on LinkedIn. Yeah, that's kind of how I view it. [00:44:41] Speaker A: Anyway, let's live up here. And I think the most important thing is just me being super transparent and honest. And look, it is what I am, as you can see, like it is very much a part of who I am and very much a part of who Percy is and will be as well. But I think it allowed people, people to kind of like emotionally invest before they even then financially invested. And like one of them was a call with, she's a recruiter and it was because she had watched my journey and she loved personally she wanted to help me out. So she was like, I know loads of people, let's have a call. We had that call. She made an introduction to another angel who subsequently invested. And then she messaged me that night. She'd gone home to her husband. She went, I think I want to invest. And she messaged me going, can I? And I was like, yes, like for everyone. And then, and what's amazing, and these are the two women that I'm meeting tonight. She then came in, I was her first investment and now she's part of different angel syndicates and she's building her portfolio. So it's like her first step and it's awesome to be a part of her journey too. [00:45:33] Speaker B: Yeah, like it is, it is two way. How do you manage? So when I hear like first time investor, how do you manage their expectations? Because like, let's be honest, it's high risk, high reward, but high risk. Chances are like they'll lose their money not because of you, but just the stats of this industry. How do you manage their expectations? Like, yeah, I know you're investing but like, yeah, you might, you might lose everything. [00:45:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:56] Speaker B: How do those conversations go with these first time investors? [00:45:59] Speaker A: It's a good question because I also think that that kind of came out when I was first doing like family and friends. And I think this time around with Percy, I didn't necessarily want to do family and friends, but I had one family and friend investor that was like, it's not fair that you're not letting me invest. And I was like, oh, that's interesting that you've put it that way. And they were like, I'm investing in you because I see an opportunity and I know know whatever you do you're going to succeed at. So I want to invest. You telling me you don't want me to invest because it's high risk and you don't want to affect. That's my choice. [00:46:29] Speaker B: You've almost taken their agency away. [00:46:31] Speaker A: And he like flipped it and I was like, that's such a great point. And I think it gave me the confidence to bring them in. I can't remember the original question, but everyone's job if you are investing, to do that research. I didn't necessarily like my conversations were so quick that day because it was so back to back. They are investing on eis, so there are also, you know, benefits for them to be investing. And they weren't investing huge or like the biggest ticket was like 25k for those individuals. So and I knew that the people like for example that, that person, that woman who invested, she had just sold her business and she again, very transparent with me. She was like, live, I've ring fenced this amount of money to invest in female founders. I would like to invest this amount. And I said, I can't give you that amount, how about this? And she went, okay. So like I said, knew that that was her goal with that money. If no one was coming to me going, I really need to make some money in the next year, can I invest in you? Then it would be like red flags, I'm not going to be that for you kind of thing. [00:47:28] Speaker B: No, that's really, it's really good to know especially being a first time ever. I mean I'd love to be in that position. What is this? You said you had some really good calls and obviously your family friend, investor turn around and said to you, hold on a minute. Why you take emergency away but in fewer words, what is the smartest advice you've got for an investor or the best question that you've ever had that you've gone, oh, okay, I hadn't thought of that. Have you had one of those moments with investors. [00:47:56] Speaker A: Trying to think now I don't know if I'd had necessarily that thought. What I did, like with investors is where they one thing I have to be very careful is I get very excited and I'll be like, oh, and then we can do this, this, this in the future, but going to be this. And I think when it came to investment and it was part of the reason why I think Hatch rejected me originally is because my idea wasn't tight enough. I wasn't focused enough on what, what are we trying to do first. And I think what was interesting is when other investors, you start tell them what you're doing with Percy and they then go, have you ever thought of doing like if it could do that? And I'm like, interesting you say that. So it's like they are also in my head and I'm like, you are. You share the same vision as, as me for Percy. And that's exciting because you know that they're going to add value to those, those conversations or be that soundboard that you might need when you're thinking, do I go this way? Do I go that way? What. What should the next step be for Percy? So that I really liked is where they're kind of like getting. It's like they already want to be part of the team kind of thing. [00:48:54] Speaker B: It's also a tough one though, when they do. When you do feel like they're inside your head, you go, oh, God, I hope I'm not coming across as like a yes woman. [00:49:00] Speaker A: True. [00:49:01] Speaker B: You know, you're like. When they're, when they're echoing what I said. Was about to say that, were you? [00:49:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:06] Speaker B: And I think that's very difficult because it is. I feel like when you've got that trust, you've got that trust. But those first few meetings, it is a bit of a game. [00:49:13] Speaker A: It's a bit of. And I am a yes woman. [00:49:15] Speaker B: How much do you say? Yeah, like, do you just like placate them, knowing that maybe they'll invest if I say? And that's very difficult to manage because I guess if you're pressured to raise money so quickly, which can be the case if in later rounds, I think you can morph into being what the money wants rather than what you want. [00:49:32] Speaker A: 100%. Another one that kind of comes to mind. I came up to Edinburgh and I met the syndicate and I sat down. It was like a dinner in. It was actually a boardroom. They turned it into like a dinner and I pitched in front of them whilst they were eating. It was quite intimidating because I just. [00:49:46] Speaker B: Turned up very intimidating. [00:49:47] Speaker A: I mean it was like 20 guys, I think. And I turned up in typical me style in like lace see through trousers with like double breasted jacket and like red lips. And I was like, what am I doing? But I think they were like, okay, she's, she's obviously her brand. Anyway, I pitched on and then I, I positioned myself next to this guy because I knew he was like the retail expert. And I was like, what do you usually invest in? He said, well, I invest in the person, not the idea, blah, blah, blah. But then he went on to say all the other reasons why he doesn't invest. And I ticked a lot of those boxes. Oh no. And I was like, damn it, he's not going to invest. But I kept thinking like, look, I really, I found him really interesting. He was so nice. We just had a really good chat. And what's interesting is afterwards is then he reached out directly. I didn't know that he was, he was in. He reached out directly and was like, live, you know, I'm here if you ever Need a chat or a coffee? And I said, let's go for a coffee. And we went for a coffee and spoke a bit more about and had kind of more honest conversations. And he actually turned around at that point he went live, I'm going to invest. And he said, I've gone against everything I said I wouldn't do to invest in you. I was like, that's interesting. [00:50:49] Speaker B: What were the, what were the no's for him? [00:50:51] Speaker A: I think my stage, my early stage, I had no. Yeah, I was pre recorded rev, I was pre launch. I had the only reason that people like, the only validation I had was that mvp. That was me manually doing it. Right. And it's not really at scale. It's also the tech wasn't working. So the idea could be really great. But if you can't make the tech work, then it's not. [00:51:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:12] Speaker A: I mean, nowadays, let's be honest, you can always work the tech. Like for me, I don't see that as a barrier. I'm like, we'll work that out. Whereas before it really was an issue, now it really isn't. So I think that was one the of of them. I think it was also the space I was maybe in. Although he had a retail background and then, oh God, I'm trying to remember some of them, I can't remember half of them, but I think the most, the majority was the fact that he was taking a bit of a punt on the fact that I haven't proven anything and he was just taking on the fact that he kind of believed that I would find a way because he'd heard all those stories and seen that resilience and he continues to be like one of the most engaged and investors. He comes down to London a lot. We go for coffee every time. Sometimes we'll just have a chat and it won't be anything to do with those. But he's also a really good soundboard. He comes from more of a financial background, but funny enough has this very creative side, which is a really interesting kind of like juxtaposition. And yeah, it's just really nice to have someone that you kind of trust and like, does genuinely believe in you as well and, and what you're trying to do and yeah, that, you know. [00:52:13] Speaker B: It sounds like you've had a very huge human race, you know, I mean, it's like me though, less pitch decks. [00:52:18] Speaker A: More I am very much like, I will build a rapport with you. Like, it's how I, I, I, I, that's what I do. Well, Is I, I like will meet someone, I'll work out what is going to be our connection. And like that is where I'll kind of like lead into. And half the time is just the open and honesty that allows people to then find that kind of like common ground or, or build that trust. [00:52:37] Speaker B: Well, it's like Percy, isn't it? You build that report. It's like I'm excluded. These in the past still here. Yeah, obviously we're coming towards the end of it. One, one question I've got. What is the biggest threat to Percy? Do you think like you've just closed all this, all this and everyone's like got all these hopes that like you can make something of it? What do you think's the biggest threat that you've got going forward? Or at least in the immediate future is probably the best way? [00:53:02] Speaker A: Well, the immediate future is that the tech doesn't work. Right. Okay. So like we're launching our pilots in October. We're doing a six month pilot with three retail retailers. And the goal of that is it's a slightly descope product to get it in ahead of what we call peak at which where they often do a tech freeze because they're focused on like sales. We're trying to get it in ahead because during that six months there's so much different consumer behavior in terms of shopping. You've got people shopping for party, for just general outerwear and winterwear, then you've got gifting, then you've got sale. So how does Percy show up for the shopper during that journey? I wanted to get, get it in but the reality is, is like, you know, we still haven't been building that long and like we are testing internally but until we actually get out there, we don't know. Right. [00:53:45] Speaker B: So first contact. [00:53:46] Speaker A: Yeah, that's the agreement with the retailers. They know that. So we, the reality or the biggest risk is that we get it out there and it's not the level of accuracy we might want it. Or maybe the shopper doesn't want to upload items at all even though it's optional. Or maybe it's, you know, still just. It becomes an annoyance, Percy being there until you get see what the value is. So there's a lot of risks in terms of that. And for us we're looking at trying to understand more about the product, the next features to focus on to support us with our wider rollout next year, let's be honest, then fundraising again, understanding where we put that additional injection of money to then scale. So There's a lot. No, no, but. [00:54:26] Speaker B: But if there wasn't a threat, it wouldn't be a business. I mean, like, you're constantly trying to improve upon other people's businesses. On tech, on consumer. The consumer behavior may change, you know, 100%. You absolutely just never know. [00:54:38] Speaker A: And actually the pace at which tech is moving, like the other risk I would say is the fact that like, what we're doing is not like proprietary and therefore it's kind of, you know, it will come down to the network effect we create and speed at which we move. And that sometimes is. Is not enough of a moat. And we've always got our eye on that. There's a lot going on outside of B2B, more D2C in terms of agentic shopping and personalization. And what we're doing is allowing the retailer to come to the party for the shopper in that way. But I mean, I'm seeing things every week and in America, they're raising millions and millions on just an idea. And you know, we're not quite there yet. So it's the pace as well that we need to continue to, to move. [00:55:22] Speaker B: I think that kind of brings it to the end. Thank you so much for your time. And obviously this has been probably about an hour. What's one thing you want people to leave with about Percy or about Olivia? [00:55:34] Speaker A: I would say probably more about my journey is just keep going. What I found, and everyone always said it, but until I went through, I didn't really understand it. Like when you get to the point that it feels really uncomfortable and painful and like I was in floods of tears being like, am I being irresponsible as a mother that I am pushing, you know, not earning and I'm pushing this business and it's still not raised like all these kind of all these questions. It was then that it worked. Yeah. And so like, if you can push through that, that is a really what makes a founder a founder and why we are the ones to succeed in the end because everyone else, the other people do give up because it is not easy. The whole point is that's why not everyone does it. But if you can push through it and make sure that you have people around you to kind of support you in the down times, like I said, my kids and my husband and my friends and Majuli, as I call her, you know, to be able to go, it is hard, but it's meant to be and that's okay. [00:56:27] Speaker B: It's your kids company too. It's your husband's company, too. It's your company. It's Julie's company. Like, obviously not in the. Not technically, but everyone is on the journey. [00:56:36] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think as long as you believe in your business enough. That's what stopped me every time I gave myself the these. Like, I'm gonna stop then. I'm gonna stop then. And I kept pushing past and people went, I thought you were gonna give up then. And I'm like, yeah. But something happened that showed me that I wasn't quite ready to give up. And that's because I truly believed in my sort of purpose and the vision for Percy. [00:56:57] Speaker B: No, I love it. And it's launching in October. [00:56:59] Speaker A: It is. So look out. It'll be launching, like I said, probably across. Hopefully across three retailers. We're still locking in the final ones. And so we'll make sure to press promote that across our website and our Instagram. [00:57:10] Speaker B: I'm sure we can help you with that as well. And congratulations on your race. [00:57:13] Speaker A: Thank you so much. [00:57:14] Speaker B: So thank you. [00:57:14] Speaker A: Thank you. I would say follow us on Instagram, we are a B2B brand, but we are building the relationship with a shopper because we want them to be able to trust us and to know how to use Percy and the benefits for it. So we're at yourpercy. Y O U r underscore Percy P R S I on Instagram. And that's also the same for our website, yourpercy. Com.